Need guidance on 47 year old home's plumbing.

[Aint-Skeered]

I am in the process of renovating a home built in the late 60's. It is a slab foundation with all plumbing, for the most part, along an exterior wall. It is a well-water supply and septic drain. Would ya'll please chime in to check my thinking on the following issues:

1. Water supply: The pipe from the well to the house is galvanized iron that transitions to copper. The copper provides the hot and cold throughout the house. I'm not sure I need to update all the copper to PVC or leave it? Should it remain copper or should I plan on making it all PVC?

2. The soil drain for the toilets, tub, and shower is cast iron. Should I burrow under the slab and replace all the old cast iron with PVC or should I leave it? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

3. The vent pipes throughout the house are galvanized pipe. Should I update that to PVC, too?

Thank you...

CJ

 

[djmayhill]

Replace the galvanized main but leave the copper water piping if the drains are functioning I would leave them but if your updating the whole house maybe would be a good time to replace. Cast iron could be very good if it is not all tore up I would get a sweet camera and inspect the drains before I replaced either way though

 

[Zanne]

Just to clarify, PVC is not allowed for indoor water supply-- especially not for hot water (it can't withstand the hot temperatures). The equivalent is CPVC. It tends to have a yellowish / off-white tint.

PVC and ABS are allowed for sewage and vent pipes.

Honestly, I think the old adage applies in this situation: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Tearing that all out would be expensive, and unless you could get a decent enough amount selling the old pipe for scrap, it might not be worth the expense.

If the plumbing is in good condition and working fine, then I say leave it as is. Now, if there are problems, then you might need to replace sections of it.

Maybe you can show some pictures of what the pipes look like (if you can get pictures) so we can see the condition.

So long as the drains are not S-trapped, the slope is correct, nothing is rusted, nothing is leaking, and everything is vented properly, it's probably ok to just leave it be.

 

[phishfood]

My 2 cents, if you plan on staying there for quite awhile, I would replace the drainage, and probably the water pipe. You have gotten the best part of the expectable life span out of the cast iron. Same thing for the copper water pipe, unless you have really good well water.

My experience with galvanized for venting is somewhat limited, but what I have seen has seemed to hold up rather well.

 

[frodo]

My 2 cents, if you plan on staying there for quite awhile, I would replace the drainage, and probably the water pipe. You have gotten the best part of the expectable life span out of the cast iron. Same thing for the copper water pipe, unless you have really good well water.

My experience with galvanized for venting is somewhat limited, but what I have seen has seemed to hold up rather well.

only problem is the weight on the pvc, it tends to make it go down.

especially on a slab house, when you are required to wrap the pipe thru the concrete.

install riser cllamps

 

[Aint-Skeered]

Thanks for the guidance. I'm attaching some pics that may help show the problems I'm facing.

The main trunk for the soil drain of both toilets is shared by both toilets, two vanities, one shower, the ugly old tub (that is being removed and replaced with a shower), and the addition of a new tub. In the photo with the tub, I'll have to cut out the slab to place new drains for the relocated old tub drain (doesn't drain good at all) and the new tub. This is my big reason for talking about removing all the old soil cast iron drain and replacing it one big move since it's all pretty much in the same location.

The galvanized pipe goes up through the roof and down into the cast iron. I've been told galvanized is known for closing in on itself but I don't know how true that is. It looks pretty ugly in one of the pics ((sorry the pics came out sideway...dunno how to fix it))

As for the copper, we are on well water. I don't know how to tell if copper is good or bad but from what I've seen in this old house, it looks pretty good where I've cut it and rerouted utility room hot and cold for washing machine and addition of new sink.

I'm overwhelmed with trying to figure out what's good and what's bad. I've had one plumber come out and he smiled with bills ranging from $3500 to $8500 depending on what I wanted. Since I am essentially rebuilding the whole house, I'd like to replace it all since it all has a life span and we are pushing 50 years but like the one ol' boy said, it ain't broke don't fix it. My concern there is to get peace of mind now while it's all exposed and hope for another 50 years...thoughts from yall now that I've got some pics?

 

[frodo]

if finances are anissue [you and me !!!!!]

leave the copper pipe, leave the gal, vents replace sewer lines upto the vent

 

[Zanne]

Ohh! OK, it is a little different if you are planning to gut the place anyway. I somehow missed that you were renovating. Duh.

Out of curiosity, what is the water quality like in the home?

If the price is not too much of an issue, you might want to go ahead and replaced the galvanized.

Find out if there is a place that buys copper scrap metal in your area and find out how much you can get for it (if there are any places). Copper can actually be pretty expensive and there are scumbags who go and steal copper out of houses that are being renovated. If you can get a decent amount, it might help offset the costs. If you really don't want to keep the copper, then you could get a PEX manifold system.

What is the black stuff on the lower parts of the copper? Some sort of protective sleeve? I see the drain pipe seems to be surrounded too. Looks like it's ABS. Maybe someone encased it to insulate the pipes somehow?

I admit, the fernco fittings (black rubber/plastic with metal clamps) concern me a bit. I know they are allowed most places, but they are more vulnerable for leaks, IIRC.

I wonder if it was leaking and rather than replace it they just put that stuff around to patch it? Or maybe that is something they did to the plumbing at that time in that area?

That electrical line with blue boxes should probably be surrounded in conduit and have plates over where they bass through the studs to prevent nailing through them. I *think*

Did the higher quote include replacing the waterlines with PEX?

Are those outlet boxes or junction boxes? I can't tell.

Sorry if I'm not being much help here.

Edit to add.. Was there no moisture barrier behind the shower walls? Isn't it standard to have moisture barriers now?

 

[Aint-Skeered]

if finances are anissue [you and me !!!!!]

leave the copper pipe, leave the gal, vents replace sewer lines upto the vent

Frodo,

Check my thinking on replacing the sewer lines. Since all of my sewer lines are under the slab near the exterior wall, would you agree the easiest way to replace the sewer lines is from tunneling to the underside of the slab?

 

[Aint-Skeered]

Ohh! OK, it is a little different if you are planning to gut the place anyway. I somehow missed that you were renovating. Duh.

Out of curiosity, what is the water quality like in the home?

If the price is not too much of an issue, you might want to go ahead and replaced the galvanized.

Find out if there is a place that buys copper scrap metal in your area and find out how much you can get for it (if there are any places). Copper can actually be pretty expensive and there are scumbags who go and steal copper out of houses that are being renovated. If you can get a decent amount, it might help offset the costs. If you really don't want to keep the copper, then you could get a PEX manifold system.

What is the black stuff on the lower parts of the copper? Some sort of protective sleeve? I see the drain pipe seems to be surrounded too. Looks like it's ABS. Maybe someone encased it to insulate the pipes somehow?

I admit, the fernco fittings (black rubber/plastic with metal clamps) concern me a bit. I know they are allowed most places, but they are more vulnerable for leaks, IIRC.

I wonder if it was leaking and rather than replace it they just put that stuff around to patch it? Or maybe that is something they did to the plumbing at that time in that area?

That electrical line with blue boxes should probably be surrounded in conduit and have plates over where they bass through the studs to prevent nailing through them. I *think*

Did the higher quote include replacing the waterlines with PEX?

Are those outlet boxes or junction boxes? I can't tell.

Sorry if I'm not being much help here.

Edit to add.. Was there no moisture barrier behind the shower walls? Isn't it standard to have moisture barriers now?

I appreciate all your thoughts. My answers follow:

The well water is typical hard water of about 28 grains. As far as I know, it's quality but hard. Again, the copper I've cut out in tearing apart the old shower and utility room lines, it was all solid with no apparent signs of thinning or pitting.

The black sheathing around the copper is a protective sleeve in the slab.

PEX isn't an option for me. I'm hopeful to keep the copper and replace it all from the slab up to update it at least above the slab.

The electrical will get the covers you mentioned before the shower gets framed and built. There is a lot to do yet...I've been working on the rest of the house one room at a time so it's getting to the point of facing the bathrooms with the plumbing because everything else is getting done.

CJ

 

[frodo]

Frodo,

Check my thinking on replacing the sewer lines. Since all of my sewer lines are under the slab near the exterior wall, would you agree the easiest way to replace the sewer lines is from tunneling to the underside of the slab?

like this yes

image.............


I suggest, dig up outside, find the debth of footer from top of slab.

find the sewer, what is debth, from top of slab ?

those numbers will tell you "IF" you can run the sewer outide and come inside under the footer.