Natural Gas from house to garage.

[DIYhomegymheater2019]

I am replacing a old natural gas that I never used before, the line in the house is 1/2" I had two quotes from two different gas companies that have permits wanting to run 1/2" copper which is another reason I decided to replace the old 3/8" line with 1/2" poly with black pipe line. Also went with 1/2 because of using a chart like this
http://snowcrest.net/thriftysupply/pdf/NAT-LP-PIPE-SIZE.pdf

Due to a poor description and title from home depot and not seeing the tiny fine print at the bottom I purchased this without realizing the risers are 3/4" the 100 feet poly line is 1/2 but they turn into risers that are 3/4 ( I have 3/4 to 1/2 elbows to fix this issue )

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FL...2-1-2-in-Meter-Risers-18-429440-005/311074240

I confirmed that there are not risers like this that go from 1/2 to 1/2 at home depot or elsewhere however they do have another kit that has small flat 1/2 pipes that are 5.5" not safe enough to use as a riser imo. If I really need to I could create my own risers with a elbow and 10 - 20" pipe and use the kit below if using a 3/4 will cause a flow or pressure issue.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FL...n-Transition-Fittings-18-429445-005/309020455

This is a time sensitive project I would prefer to use to just use what I have now but not sure if it will end up into safety issues or pressure drops etc or what ever could go wrong.

I get that your gas pipe is rated only for what your smallest size pipe is and also the length of your gas system. I just can't find any info about going from a smaller size to a larger size back to a smaller size pipe 1/2" ( house ) to 3/4" ( top of riser ) to 1/2" (bottom of riser ) to "to 1/2" ( bottom of riser ) to 3/4" ( top of riser ) to 1/2" ( garage pipe ) to a 3/8" ( appliance ) which is a mr heater 30k btu heater.

My question is will having a line that is all 1/2 but having the risers that go from 1/2 - 3/4 with 3/4 to 1/2 elbows cause issues in pressure. I am running a line that is 33" feet outside about so let's say 55" to count the house inside and the garage piping for the sake of safety and margin of error.

 

[Diehard]

There's a bit more to it then what you're looking at and talking about.
I would strongly recommend dealing with a licensed plumber/gas fitter that is thoroughly familiar with sizing gas piping correctly. Not all are.

 

[DIYhomegymheater2019]

There's a bit more to it then what you're looking at and talking about.
I would strongly recommend dealing with a licensed plumber/gas fitter that is thoroughly familiar with sizing gas piping correctly. Not all are.

I already did in the sense 1/2 would fit what I need. I had 2 licensee professionals that have the permit and all who wanted to charge 1400 to 1700 USD they BOTH wanted to run 1/2 line so 1/2 is with out a doubt safe for my needs unless I am running a 70 - 80k BTU furnace I would need to run all 3/4 from my main service line which is possible but I would not know how that would impact the house appliances I rather just run the 1/2" because I had BOTH companies tell me to run 1/2" but they only wanted to run 1/2 because I told them how many BTUs I needed. If if it was a 3/8 riser for example that would be a big issue because my line would be only rated for 3/8 and it would be a size down and not up and not support the 30k BTU I need.

I called the manufacture of the riser 2 hours ago they said only a small portion of it was 3/4 and most of it was 1/2 and it shouldn't be a problem although I don't take what they say as the gospel they just want people to buy their product.

Please don't take this the wrong way I am not here to be told contact a professional if I was going to I would not bother to even make a post for this on a few sites and reddit. I do not have the money to have some guy with a silly permit rob me of money. I fished enough info from them to know the minimum line I can use which is 1/2" I was just hoping someone on here he a license and could give me advice. I also plan on having the natural gas company come out here to pressure test it, I also bought a detectable metallic natural gas line caution tape to bury with the line and have the line 18" at least as needed to make sure this job is as legit and up to code.

 

[Jeff Handy]

That tracer tape sounds iffy.

Maybe it is just as good, but I have always seen a yellow 14 gauge copper wire buried with the gas line, and it terminates above ground and the start of the wire is visible.
Some places require 12 gauge I think.

There is also special reinforced tracer wire with several layers, supposedly harder to snap by accident from shifting soil or sharp rocks etc.

 

[Diehard]

The gas company will be coming out to test the new work when it's done? I guess this means you will have a permit and be subject to the plumbing inspectors approval?

To be clear on this I must ask...
Your 1st line says you'll be replacing "a old gas that I never used before". An old gas what?

You're running off an existing 1/2" piping system from your house?

You're adding a 30k BTU load for a heater in your garage.

So you are adding an additional demand to your house demand.

Do you know what your pressure is at the entrance to you house?

Do you know what your total load is for you house when adding an additional demand?

Do you know what you local requirements allow for allowable pressure drop?

Do you realize that the first chart you linked does not make reference to what pressure drop that is based on?

I would suggest you look up you local applicable code and read up on the allowable ways to size a gas system.

 

[DIYhomegymheater2019]

The gas company will be coming out to test the new work when it's done? I guess this means you will have a permit and be subject to the plumbing inspectors approval?

To be clear on this I must ask...
Your 1st line says you'll be replacing "a old gas that I never used before". An old gas what?

You're running off an existing 1/2" piping system from your house?

You're adding a 30k BTU load for a heater in your garage.

So you are adding an additional demand to your house demand.

Do you know what your pressure is at the entrance to you house?

Do you know what your total load is for you house when adding an additional demand?

Do you know what you local requirements allow for allowable pressure drop?

Do you realize that the first chart you linked does not make reference to what pressure drop that is based on?

I would suggest you look up you local applicable code and read up on the allowable ways to size a gas system.

I am not subject to any approval but I would like this to be all up to code such as using a dirt leg with a nipple and cap at the appliance end point to catch any dirt. Basically I bought a heater this year tried to connected it to the gas line was not able to get a light. So I called my gas company. They said they would send out a tech free of charge even though I don't think it was their responsibility to check out a line running house to garage since there was no problem with their service line running into the house, but hey I am not going to complain for free help the tech they sent to me was super friendly. I told the tech that I thought the line collapsed because it was so old. The gas tech did a pressure test for me he said it was good and would help me hook it up then we went out side he got no gas coming out so we looked for any shutoff valves outside and found none and both agreed yea the line was unusable and I would need to run new line. Then I got a quote from two different gas companies that have permits and all and they wanted to charge 1400 - 1700 USD to run a new line from house to the garage using copper line. So that's how I got into this DYI project spending only 200-230 USD so far. I dug a 18" trench by hand since there was unknown electrical lines I found running from the house to the garage. I didn't want to risk using a 18" trencher and cutting the electric line to the garage by accident because my family did not run these old lines and I had no clue where they where.

I will call the gas company once I am done hooking up the pipes and request a tech to come out again.
1 ) The main service line is 1" or greater but it's not 2" ( my guess it's a 1 1/4 " line that turns into a 3/4 TEE that then becomes a 1/2 line for basically all the appliances. There is a home gas furnace that is running with a very short 1/2" line from the 3/4 main TEE. The old home to garage line was a 1/2 line that came from the main 3/4 TEE that runs into other household appliances. As soon as the line left the house for some reason the person ran a 3/8" line all the way into the garage and had a 1/2" TEE at the garage. It is a old gas line from the 70s or 80s that my parents never used except a few times. The old garage furnace that was there looks like it was at least 50 BTUs maybe even 70 - 80k but it was never used by my parents. I could take a picture if need be.

2) see number one above the house has a 1/2 but it then goes to 3/4 TEE then into a large 1" 1 1/4" or 1.5" pipe but basically all the appliances including the furnace have a 1/2 pipe

3) Yes a 30k BTU infrared mr heater ventless that has a 3/8" inlet

4) So yes since the old gas line was never used by my family you could say it's a new demand.

5) the pressure entrance to my house I think you mean the water column (WC) pressure I think I asked the gas company but forgot I can call in and double check. I do remember the natural gas company tech making a remark like the pressure in our lines aren't that high.

6) Let my find the BTU rating of the furnace the, the stove/oven unit

7) I am not sure what you mean I assume the smallest pipe I can have. My guess is 1/2" but I will google this and find out. I am in the Columbus Ohio US area

8) No, can you explain this more?

9) is there a specific term I can use to find out my local applicable code like XYZ standards do I look up my county state or city etc

I appreciate you asking me these questions this is the type of feed back I was hoping to find. Thank you

 

[DIYhomegymheater2019]

That tracer tape sounds iffy.

Maybe it is just as good, but I have always seen a yellow 14 gauge copper wire buried with the gas line, and it terminates above ground and the start of the wire is visible.
Some places require 12 gauge I think.

There is also special reinforced tracer wire with several layers, supposedly harder to snap by accident from shifting soil or sharp rocks etc.

Thank you I will consider to buy some 12 gauge wire. Yea not sure if the caution tape is just holographic or actually detectable by what ever device is used, but it claims to be detectable

 

[Diehard]

I can't believe you are not subject to any approvals.
Check with the gas company and your local code enforcement agency.
Simply search the web for, "applicable gas fuel code for Columbus Ohio", for example.

There are a lot of detail requirements regarding fuel gas piping that must be met. From materials, installation to design.

 

[Jeff Handy]

If you do this work without permits, and your town or county or whatever jurisdiction actually requires permits and inspections, you might be in trouble if you have a fire in the garage.

The insurance companies like to find ways not to pay out claims, they might discover the gas line and possibly even the heater are illegal, and decide not to pay.

Meanwhile, I admit I have done repairs or extensions to gas lines in garages, and installed garage heaters, without permits as that was the client’s choice, but they paid in cash and the burden was all on them if something went wrong years later.

Also, if your trench is already dug, that was smart.
Yes, it’s easy to tear into buried stuff while using a trencher.

And now, if you do end up hiring this out, their bids should be much lower.

 

[TomFOhio]

We always ran 1" plastic with tracer wire and 1" risers at each end. Plus it need inspected and tested before the trench could
be covered.

 

[frodo]

Columbus Ohio is IPC statewide
your gas work requires a permit and an inspection