Low water pressure.

[SepticNoob]

I have noticed over the holiday that if multiple sources are using water at times the pressure would get low for a few minutes. Not knowing much about wells I didn’t think much of it since we had relatives staying over and we were consuming more water than normal. However now everyone has left and it seems there is very little pressure all the time. So far all I have looked at is the pressure gauge on the pressure tank and I can see that the pump kicks on at 40 psi and quickly shoots up to 60 psi and cuts off again. This has me thinking that it’s not a pump issue? But again I know nothing about this stuff. Could the pressure be normal and maybe something in my treatment system is clogged up? It’s an older water treatment tank and we were planning on replacing it anyways but now I’m concerned that we may have bigger problems. Any help is appreciated. I will post pics of my setup in a bit if that helps

 

[SepticNoob]

I have noticed over the holiday that if multiple sources are using water at times the pressure would get low for a few minutes. Not knowing much about wells I didn’t think much of it since we had relatives staying over and we were consuming more water than normal. However now everyone has left and it seems there is very little pressure all the time. So far all I have looked at is the pressure gauge on the pressure tank and I can see that the pump kicks on at 40 psi and quickly shoots up to 60 psi and cuts off again. This has me thinking that it’s not a pump issue? But again I know nothing about this stuff. Could the pressure be normal and maybe something in my treatment system is clogged up? It’s an older water treatment tank and we were planning on replacing it anyways but now I’m concerned that we may have bigger problems. Any help is appreciated. I will post pics of my setup in a bit if that helps

 

[Valveman]

The pressure "shooting up" to 60 quickly means the tank is bad. If you watch it while a shower is on it will be cycling on/off like click, click, click. It has been getting gradually worse for quite some time and damaging the pump as the cycles get shorter. Now would be a good time to add a Cycle Stop Valve and fix the cycling that has always been the cause of nearly all pump system problems. With a Cycle Stop Valve you won't need to replace with such a large tank as all you will need is a little 4.5 gallon size tank. Here is a link to the kit you need and a video of a big tank like that being replaced with the PK1A kit and 4.5 gallon size tank.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit

 

[SepticNoob]

The pressure "shooting up" to 60 quickly means the tank is bad. If you watch it while a shower is on it will be cycling on/off like click, click, click. It has been getting gradually worse for quite some time and damaging the pump as the cycles get shorter. Now would be a good time to add a Cycle Stop Valve and fix the cycling that has always been the cause of nearly all pump system problems. With a Cycle Stop Valve you won't need to replace with such a large tank as all you will need is a little 4.5 gallon size tank. Here is a link to the kit you need and a video of a big tank like that being replaced with the PK1A kit and 4.5 gallon size tank.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit

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Thanks for the info. Is it normal for the tanks to fail in such a short time frame? We had this replaced when we moved in 5-6 years ago. Is premature tank failure another result from the cycling?

 

[SepticNoob]

Thanks for the info. Is it normal for the tanks to fail in such a short time frame? We had this replaced when we moved in 5-6 years ago. Is premature tank failure another result from the cycling?

Ok. So I may have been wrong when saying “shooting back up” I just watched it again after turning on the bath and got this video. It doesn’t seem to let me upload but the details are it actually cuts on at 37 psi and takes about 25 seconds to build up to 60 psi then cuts off again and slowly starts to bleed off pressure at about the same rate

 

[Valveman]

Thanks for the info. Is it normal for the tanks to fail in such a short time frame? We had this replaced when we moved in 5-6 years ago. Is premature tank failure another result from the cycling?

The design life of pumps and tanks is seven years. For every system that last 20 years there is another that only lasted 20 days. The seven year average life is almost right on the money. This is all by design and determined by the number of pump cycles. They size tanks to make the pump run 60 seconds to fill it, which is the key to the seven year average life. Pumps are made to run continuously 24/7/365 and the more times they cycle on and off the shorter the life. Tanks are made the same way. The diaphragm is designed to last through about 7 years of cycling. The more times the diaphragm goes up and down, the sooner it will break like when bending a wire back and forth.

When the tank diaphragm starts to leak out the air charge after 4-5 years, the pump starts cycling faster. When the tank is out of air the pump will rapid cycle for a few days, and if it is not noticed, the entire water system will need to be replaced. That is how it is planned to work.

The fewer times the pump cycles on and off the longer everything will last, which is why pump manufacturers hate the Cycle Stop Valve. They call is a "disruptive product", which I first thought was a bad thing. But a disruptive product is only bad for the pump and tank manufacturers, it is the best thing a home or pump owner can do to make the system last.

On top of making the pump systems last several times longer than planned, there are also many other benefits with the CSV. Nearly every component in a pump system is benefited by the use of a CSV, and the strong constant pressure it delivers to the house is incredible. I certainly understand why pump manufacturers hate me. It use to bother me. But now I wear it as a badge of honor being one of the first to expose the "fake news" or "disinformation" pump manufacturers have been feeding us for decades. People use to think I was some kind of conspiracy theorists. But with CSV's being successful for over 30 years now, many people now realize I have always been telling the truth.

 

[Valveman]

Ok. So I may have been wrong when saying “shooting back up” I just watched it again after turning on the bath and got this video. It doesn’t seem to let me upload but the details are it actually cuts on at 37 psi and takes about 25 seconds to build up to 60 psi then cuts off again and slowly starts to bleed off pressure at about the same rate

As I said, 60 seconds is bare minimum run time if you want everything to last at least 7 years. 25 seconds of run time is not enough, and will shorten the life of the pump and tank as well as cause pressure fluctuation is the house. Either the tank is bad, too small to start with, or both.

Also the pressure should not bleed off when no water is being used. If it bleeds down when no one is using water the check valve on the pump has failed, which is just another thing the CSV would have saved from failing.

 

[Doug Mildram]

I don't see a water filter in those pics, but doesn't most every house have a filter (usually near the expansion tank) ?

 

[SepticNoob]

As I said, 60 seconds is bare minimum run time if you want everything to last at least 7 years. 25 seconds of run time is not enough, and will shorten the life of the pump and tank as well as cause pressure fluctuation is the house. Either the tank is bad, too small to start with, or both.

Also the pressure should not bleed off when no water is being used. If it bleeds down when no one is using water the check valve on the pump has failed, which is just another thing the CSV would have saved from failing.

Thanks again for all the knowledge. I am going to get a professional to come look at it, it definitely makes me feel better knowing a little more about how everything is supposed to work.

 

[MicEd69]

Thanks again for all the knowledge. I am going to get a professional to come look at it, it definitely makes me feel better knowing a little more about how everything is supposed to work.

It is great that you are reaching out to gain a little knowledge. And here's just a little caution about getting a professional. If the professional is customer oriented, doing what's best for the customer, he will not argue against a Cycle Stop Valve. If the professional says you need a new and larger pressure tank, or a variable speed drive for the well, or that the Cycle Stop Valve makes the pump run all the time which is bad, you need to get another professional.

Something that is counterintuitive to some is that a pump that runs more is better for the pump. Yes, bearings do fail, but the major cause of water pump failure is the motor. The motor of a pump produces heat because it is not 100% efficient in converting electrical power to mechanical power. The amperage that is flowing to the motor is the measure of power with which it is being supplied. To start a pump from a dead stop, there is an inrush of current that can be 3 to 5 times the full load amperage draw at maximum motor power. So, every time the motor starts, there is a spike in amperage that heats the motor windings causing degradation to the wire's insulation. Another counter intuitive item may be that a motor can overheat while being submerged in water. The heat that is generated takes time to dissipate, and motor failure of pump motors are the primary cause of well pump failures.

And yet another counter intuitive item is that a pump running more takes less energy that running it intermittently to pump the same volume of water. One needs to understand that the primary work a pump does is to move water, so one can somewhat ignore the pressure aspects of a well pump when looking at power consumption. A pump running full out for 1 minute, then off for 5 minutes, then on for 1 minute, then off for 5 minutes, repeating for 1 hour will take more power than the pump running for 1 hour and pumping the same volume of water.

I hope this provides you a little more knowledge in your search for the best solution to your problem.