Leaks after new wax ring(s)

[newbie666]

Yes the last time I did it I used a regular wax ring with flange. This time time I made sure to use a wax ring that is 40% thicker than standard and rocked toilet back and forth side to side gently. Sat on it and did the same thing, grabbed some 30lb dumb bells repeated. tightened bolts down gradually alternating sides hand tight first than with wrench, until washers started to bend a bit. Sat on it a bit then gave it an extra 1/2 turn. Also with my flange being a lead one if I over tighten I might bend it which might also cause a leak, right? Is there a set foot pounds to tighten the bolts to? I could get technical and use a torque wrench?

When I first had it leaking I did run red food coloring in the tank and bowl for a few days to check for cracks. I assume if there was a crack I would see a red line?

 

[havasu]

You could always try pouring some antifreeze in the bowl, and watch for cracks on the underside of the bowl, which is where the crack would have to be in order to drain onto the floor. Antifreeze has the ability to seep through cracks better than water, and is a good visible for you.

Nobody will give you torque specks on how hard to tighten, because of all the variables (temperature, thickness of base, thickness of the ears, etc). You are correct in tightening until the washer bends, but I don't rock too vigorously from side to side, because it can break a seal between the porcelain and the wax ring.

 

[newbie666]

Now I have done it with a thicker wax ring I will wait and see. 2 Weeks is better than 2 days. Well at the end of this I am gonna be a pro at doing wax rings.

Another thing I notice is that if I don't use the toilet for a while the level of the water goes down. Is this normal or give some insight into my issues? Even for that 2 week span where it wasn't leaking it would do this.

 

[havasu]

The level in the tank or the bowl?

 

[newbie666]

In the bowl

 

[havasu]

That is a sign of problems. Crack in the bowl, sewer vent or main line blockage, an obstruction in the trap of the toilet are some of the things I would be concerned with.

 

[Kcrazyb]

Just get a new toilet there about 120 at home depot problem solved

 

[newbie666]

It is a new toilet. I guess I will see if new thicker wax ring does the trick. I though me adding food colouring for a few days would reveal cracks in the toilet.

 

[phishfood]

Zanne asked a good question. If there is any movement between the toilet and the floor, the wax will not seal for very long.

 

[Kcrazyb]

They make a die pellet just for toilets it is blue put in the back of the tank and will reveal any problem's you can get them at any plumbing supply house for free like consolidated supply I'm from idaho so like Robertson supply they also make flange extensions if your flange is set down in the tile or hard wood silicone the extension down then your wax or a jumbo Johnny wax ring which is the thicker ring works good 20 yr plumber I've set a few

 

[Zanne]

Another random question: Do you warm the wax a bit (not to melting point obviously) before putting the ring on? You can actually warm it with your hands a bit and it makes the wax more malleable. This is important if the area is cold as wax becomes more brittle.

I hope there is not a crack in the toilet.

 

[camaroderrick73]

Sounds like a manufacture defect in the toilet... Take it back and get a new one . That's what i would do

 

[havasu]

CD73 might be on to something. I once purchased a new Kohler toilet and had problems clogging. A few months later these casting remnants popped out of the bowl. I called Kohler (great company with great customer service!) and they replaced the bowl with a new one.

 

[Zanne]

Ooh, that is a nice design on that Kohler, havasu. It has that classy vintage style to it.

 

[newbie666]

Well I took it back and got another one of the same make and model. I was away for a few days so I put a lot of food coloring in the bowl before I left. When I took the toilet off I found a hairline crack on the left side underneath 1/2" of where the roundness of the bowl starts. I hope this was my issue all along. I did see beads of water on the underside this time. Gave the new one a look over before installing.

Anyways I guess this is hopefully the 6th and last time I have to do this. Used an extra thick wax ring, (base of toilet was just over an inch off the floor before I wiggled it down). I would guess this would mean there is enough wax. I hope my month long battle with a new toilet is done, If I don't post again it means I am finally successful.

A big thanks to all the contributors for their time and suggestions.

 

[havasu]

I'm happy to hear you may have solved this dilemma. This thread may also help countless others, and I appreciate the follow up!

 

[newbie666]

Its been since Dec 18 2013 I have been leak free. Just when I thought it was ok I wake up to a bit of water around the same usual spot again. It was a new toilet installed with an extra thick wax ring. When I pulled the toilet off I looked on the under side and found this, but don't know if this could be the issue. its on the underside of the bowl. When I do the wax ring there is about an iphones thickness that I am pushing down on. When I had the bolts tightened down the toilet did not rock. With time could the wax have compressed more and bolts became not tight enough? Please note the red circling on the picture and see if I should exchange for a 3rd toilet.

 

[IFIXH20]

Mix some food color in a bucket of water. Place wax ring on flange and set toilet in place ( no need to bolt toilet down). Pour 2 or 3 buckets of colored water in bowl only making sure toilet flushes with each pour. Remove left over water out bowl, pull toilet to check area under toilet for signs of color/water.

 

[matthew12]

Maybe the wax seal is not positioned correctly or closet flange is defective/damaged/installed wrong.