In Ground Pressure to Basement

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I just had to get my in ground pressure tank that is a shared well to 4 houses total replaced and the well guy recommended putting the pressure tank in the basement which I was fine with but now the pump is short cycling. Pump turns on below 50 jumps up to 70 then turns off and bounces below 50 to turn on again. It does this cycle about 4 times within 20 seconds. This was happening they about 9 times in 20 seconds they came replaced the new pressure tank and switch and now It’s better but still short cycling. I have looked online/forums and it seem the switch or pressure tank are usually to blame but my question is plumbing layout and size. There is only one pipe coming into my house that must be 1.25”-1.5” that adapts down to 1” from there it T’s to 2x 3/4” one side feeds my house and the other side goes to the switch the pressure tank and a spigot - they just moved out the spigot to attach the 90 gallon pressure tank. Could the short cycling be due to the pressure tank being adapted down to 3/4” and not having proper flow?
 

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fairran1 said:
I just had to get my in ground pressure tank that is a shared well to 4 houses total replaced and the well guy recommended putting the pressure tank in the basement which I was fine with but now the pump is short cycling. Pump turns on below 50 jumps up to 70 then turns off and bounces below 50 to turn on again. It does this cycle about 4 times within 20 seconds. This was happening they about 9 times in 20 seconds they came replaced the new pressure tank and switch and now It’s better but still short cycling. I have looked online/forums and it seem the switch or pressure tank are usually to blame but my question is plumbing layout and size. There is only one pipe coming into my house that must be 1.25”-1.5” that adapts down to 1” from there it T’s to 2x 3/4” one side feeds my house and the other side goes to the switch the pressure tank and a spigot - they just moved out the spigot to attach the 90 gallon pressure tank. Could the short cycling be due to the pressure tank being adapted down to 3/4” and not having proper flow?
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You DEFINTELY need a CSV (Cycle Stop Valve) for your system. The short cycling of you pump is killing it! What is the set pressure of the tank? I doubt two tanks would have faulty diaphragms, but that could happen. There should not be any issue that the tank inlet is 3/4".

Valveman should be responding soon with your best fix.
 
My understanding of a CSV would only work if I had an outlet line from the pressure tank. Since the old pressure tank use to be out in the ground all the neighbors water supply Ts underground as well. For the csv to work I think it would have to be inline before any of the Ts for my neighbors which would have to be buried but my limited research says that is not good for a csv.
 
A CSV simply works in conjunction with the existing pressure switch that controls the well pump. When the pressure switch calls for the pump to come on, it comes on and the CSV provides flow to the users throttling the pump flow until the need for water is turned off.

I actually don't fully understand your system as you say there are 3 other houses besides yours that this well supplies, and the pressure tank use to be underground. A sketch of your complete well system, both before the pressure tank change and after would help. The location of the pressure tank and the 3/4" connection tank may be an issue. But I believe a CSV would resolve that if that were the issue.
 
I attached a pic of before and after I am not exactly sure of the neighbors layout due to it all being underground somewhere. I only have one pipe coming into my basement.
 

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So, the pressure switch for the pump has always been in your basement for all four houses?

With the current setup, water has to backflow through the line to your house when someone uses water in one of the other three houses. So, what I said earlier about the 3/4" connection not being a problem was wrong. It appears to me that you have a big problem with the location of the pressure tank.
 
Yes the pressure switch was always located in our basement. Would putting the pressure tank directly on the 1.25” pipe coming into the house help at all? Or is back flowing just going to be problematic either way?
 
When no water is being used by anyone on your system, the pump is off, and the pressure tank is "full". When water is called for from any source, the first water that is used comes from the pressure tank and not the pump. So, where the tank is now, when another house calls for water, water has to flow out of the tank through the 3/4" connection and back through your supply line to the tees underground to their house. The dynamics of the system appear to be such that the pressure drop between the tank and the switch is high enough when water is being used, the pressure there is varying between 50 and 70 and cycling your pump.

If the pressure tank was on the 1 1/4" line, that would probably be best as it would change the dynamics of the system for the better.

HOWEVER, a CSV will resolve the issue much better. With a CSV, the pressure switch turns on the pump when water is called for from any place. The water from the pump then supplies the water to wherever it is being called for, somewhat bypassing your pressure tank. The pressure tank will refill during the pump's operation, but the pump will not turn off until the need for water is stopped. The CSV will also provide constant pressure rather than the cycling between 50 and 70 that you have been experiencing with a straight pressure switch well pump system.

This appears to be an excellent system for a CSV.
 
fairran1 said:
I just had to get my in ground pressure tank that is a shared well to 4 houses total replaced and the well guy recommended putting the pressure tank in the basement which I was fine with but now the pump is short cycling. Pump turns on below 50 jumps up to 70 then turns off and bounces below 50 to turn on again. It does this cycle about 4 times within 20 seconds. This was happening they about 9 times in 20 seconds they came replaced the new pressure tank and switch and now It’s better but still short cycling. I have looked online/forums and it seem the switch or pressure tank are usually to blame but my question is plumbing layout and size. There is only one pipe coming into my house that must be 1.25”-1.5” that adapts down to 1” from there it T’s to 2x 3/4” one side feeds my house and the other side goes to the switch the pressure tank and a spigot - they just moved out the spigot to attach the 90 gallon pressure tank. Could the short cycling be due to the pressure tank being adapted down to 3/4” and not having proper flow?
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How far is your pressure switch from your pressure tank ?
 
Thanks MicEd! As a 90 gallon pressure tank only holds 25 gallons of water a Cycle Stop Valve would certainly help with the everyday cycling, eliminate water hammer, deliver strong constant pressure to the houses, and work with a smaller pressure tank if you like. But the switch bouncing is because of that little blue plastic pipe to the tank. With so much restriction to the tank, the pressure switch is seeing 70 before any water gets into the tank. Then when it shuts off, because there is no water in the tank, the pump instantly comes back on. The pressure switch really needs to be where the elbow is, just before the tank. But if you replace that blue (restrictive) line with a 1" or 1 1/4" full ID pipe, the tank will be able to take water before the switch breaks.

And yes a Cycle Stop Valve would need to go before the first tee off the mainline. In Wisconsin the frost level is too deep for a valve box, so installing the CSVS125 in the well would be the best option.
CSVS125 in well with 20 gallon tank, hydrant and houses.jpg
 
I have solved this problem by adding a second pressure tank close to the pump, it doesn't need to be very big.
 
So I appreciate all the responses but I called the my well guy and he came out and the issue seems to be fixed for now(at least the switch bouncing). He said there were rocks in the line that must have gotten in there when they were digging the pressure tank out and got in the line going to the house. I will still monitor the cycling to see how’s things go everything is working and it’s been a long month of troubleshooting. I imagine this pump is going to fail early since after the pump was originally replaced is when the in ground tank was leaking and the new pump ran continuous for a week and a half until he could get out to replace it and now with all the short cycling this pump has had a hard life. If everything stays working I’ll wait to ask about a CSV until we need a pump again.
 
fairran1 said:
I imagine this pump is going to fail early since after the pump was originally replaced is when the in ground tank was leaking and the new pump ran continuous for a week and a half until he could get out to replace it and now with all the short cycling this pump has had a hard life.
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The life of the pump is not really shortened so much with it running continuously for even weeks at a time. But the quick cycling of the pump is the pump motor killer.
 
fairran1 said:
So I appreciate all the responses but I called the my well guy and he came out and the issue seems to be fixed for now(at least the switch bouncing). He said there were rocks in the line that must have gotten in there when they were digging the pressure tank out and got in the line going to the house. I will still monitor the cycling to see how’s things go everything is working and it’s been a long month of troubleshooting. I imagine this pump is going to fail early since after the pump was originally replaced is when the in ground tank was leaking and the new pump ran continuous for a week and a half until he could get out to replace it and now with all the short cycling this pump has had a hard life. If everything stays working I’ll wait to ask about a CSV until we need a pump again.
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That really doesn't make sense. The rocks would need to be stuck in the pipe after the pressure switch. Rocks in the line before the pressure switch would not cause the switch to bounce.

If the leak caused the pump to run continuously for a couple weeks it didn't hurt anything. I have one filling a stock tank that hasn't shut off since 1996. But if the leak was small enough to cause the pump to cycle on and off for a couple weeks, it wasn't good.

Even if they got it working where it is not bouncing the switch, the pump is still cycling on and off continually for regular use. The longer you wait to add a Cycle Stop Valve the less time your pump will survive. A system that supplies several houses really needs a Cycle Stop Valve or about 4 of the biggest pressure tanks you can get, which still isn't as good as having a CSV.
 
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