Float lever sticking & power to jet pump problem

[Zanne]

Ok. So, remember this thing I mentioned that sometimes doesn't sense the float level? In the past it would stay on when the float was up but lately it has not been turning on when the float gets low.

Here is a more recent photo with the cap on it.

I don't know if the arm itself is sticking or if the stuff inside the box just isn't detecting the movements or what. But in the past week I've had to go outside and jiggle the float thing to make the pump turn back on because the tank was empty and it didn't seem to detect that the float was down. The jet pump was still going trying to push water, but there was no water to push.

I don't even know what the mechanism is called, but I would like to replace it-- preferably with something more efficient. Any ideas? Links to products and info on how to install it would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.

I don't want my jet pump to burn out because of this issue.

I know in the past solenoid valves were mentioned, but I never did find something that looked like it would work (but maybe it's just my lack of understanding of how the things work).

 

[speedbump]

I forget what they called those things. The actual device is a simple pump pressure switch with a rod welded to the spring plate. They were never that dependable. I prefer a float switch and a solonoid valve. You would also need a 24 volt transformer. I used to sell them on my Website not too long ago.

 

[Zanne]

I forget what they called those things. The actual device is a simple pump pressure switch with a rod welded to the spring plate. They were never that dependable. I prefer a float switch and a solonoid valve. You would also need a 24 volt transformer. I used to sell them on my Website not too long ago.

Thanks, speedbump. Is the black cord thing the 24 volt transformer? Or is that the switch?
How would I install the float switch and valve? (Should I post more pictures of the top of the tank?)
Would I have to change any of the wiring in the pump house to install that? Like run new wires or something, or do you think it can run off of existing wires?

 

[speedbump]

No the black cord thing is the float. I'm not sure what that pressure switch is turning on and off I might need more pictures for that one. But you can have the float turn on or off the valve to let water into the tank or to stop it from running into the tank.

 

[Zanne]

For some reason I can't edit my posts on this-- maybe since it's an old thread?
Ok, so the black thing is the float switch.
So, this looks sort of like what I have now http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...-Tank-or-Sump-Applications-9036DG2R/206398811

And the switch you posted a picture of looks like http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Tethered-Float-Switch-with-Piggyback-Plug-TFS13D1610P1/206055879

There's also this thing: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Vertical-Float-Switch-for-Sump-Pumps-EBPBV/205618047

Not sure which one would work better since I know very little about pump systems.

And the 24-volt Transformer http://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-24-Volt-Transformer-AT72D/202264717

When I searched HomeDepot I didn't see anything that looked quite like the picture you posted for the Solonoid valve so I'm a bit lost there. Is that just an example or pretty much the exact one? I found a site with the image through a google image search for that image. http://www.theirrigationshop.com.au/shopping/proddetail.asp?prod=1290
Another page gave the description as "solenoid valve jar top with flow control"
I'm seeing different sized valves and I have no idea which one to get.

Something like this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004TZ7SFC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thanks so much for answering in the first place.

 

[Zanne]

I got more pictures. I got it from the angles I could reach. I can't get around to the other side of the tank to get the end with the rod.

Meanwhile, when I went to take the pictures I heard running water. PVC has come loose from the pump so it's leaking. *sigh*
I really need to get an anti-vibration mat under the pump and get one of those thingamabogs to hook to the pump instead of PVC. Some kind of hose or attachment that won't come loose-- I can't remember what it's called now. I found a picture of one before but can't remember where I posted it...

 

[speedbump]

The reason the pumps leaking probably is because the pipes got hot from it running dry.
What do the wires in that switch come from and go to?

 

[Zanne]

The reason the pumps leaking probably is because the pipes got hot from it running dry.
What do the wires in that switch come from and go to?

Wires with the orange wrap peeled back supply the power to the unit-- the wires are hanging down from the top of the shed. The wires from the switch then go out to the pulley-wheel pump.

Next time I shut off the power I need to wrap the exposed wires in electrical tape. They are a shock hazard currently.

Pulley wheel pump connects to this metal pipe which connects to PVC. I know the metal pipe carries air that gets very hot.

PVC pipe then goes up to the top of the tank

I found the thing I wanted to use for the pump connection but I haven't found it for sale. http://www.flex-weld.com/braided-pump-connectors.html
And I don't know exactly how I would hook it up or what size to use. I think if I could bridge that to PVC somehow it would reduce the chances of the PVC vibrating or getting too hot.

 

[speedbump]

Oh I forgot that you have that air compressor pump and water up from the well to the aireator. So forget about a solenoid valve instead you need the float the Transformer a relay and
that should do it. All your really doing is using a float to turn on/off the air compressor to keep the tank full.
I miss my Website, it had pictures galore. Now I have to go exploring to find things I'm talking about.

 

[Zanne]

Oh I forgot that you have that air compressor pump and water up from the well to the aireator. So forget about a solenoid valve instead you need the float the Transformer a relay and
that should do it. All your really doing is using a float to turn on/off the air compressor to keep the tank full.
I miss my Website, it had pictures galore. Now I have to go exploring to find things I'm talking about.

Hence my confusion of how it was all going to work.
Ok. So I would need the float like the one you showed a picture of, the 24volt transformer, and I'm not sure what the relay would look like. I'm a very visual person so it helps me to know what the stuff looks like.

I'm trying to figure out how the best way to do the float would be. There is a hole in the top of the tank where the current metal rod and float go down in to. I would just put the float down that hole somehow? And how would I tie in the relay and the transformer? I'm trying to visualize it all. Would I still be able to use the same wires that were supplying power to the old switch and pump?

I remember going to your site when it was up. I really liked it.

 

[Valveman]

That float switch you have is home made. You can get a factory made one here.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H5O5OK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I use them all the time on cow water troughs. They have always been very dependable for me.

 

[speedbump]

I thought it looked home made.

Yes you can use the same wires, the relay looks like this:

The relay must have a 24 volt coil so the transformer sending power through the float can actuate the relay which in turn operates the compressor. It should be a 30 amp or so relay.

 

[Zanne]

Thanks, Valveman and Speedbump. I'm not surprised that the one I have is home made.

I actually looked at that switch on Amazon before and noted that it looked like the one I have now.

Ok. 30 amp relay. I'm writing that down in my notes.

Would I need a vertical float switch since it has to go down in to the tank from the hole above? Something like this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007KCBKE6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

And my biggest question: How would I set it all up? Are there any diagrams of a good setup that I could look at? I'm not sure what would go where. I work better with pictures these days. LOL.

 

[speedbump]

That is a picture of the wrong type of float. The float I'm referring to is a ball with a 10 or 20 foot cord attached to it. They have piggyback, direct wire and the ones I used to sell which have three wires so you can use them for either pump up or pump down. What you want is a pump up. To keep the tank full.

I'll look through all my images and see if I can find the one you need.

 

[Valveman]

When I use a pump up float switch I usually put a piece of PVC pipe in a bucket with about 1 half sack of cement to hold the pipe and for weight. Then I can zip tie the float switch at the height I want.

 

[Zanne]

Thanks speedbump and valveman. I may see if I can call Mr. Show (the guy who woks on the pump and well) and talk to him about the setup and see if he knows how to set it up with the parts you guys mentioned. I know he installs well systems for a living so he probably works with different types of floats and he will know more about it than I do. Only problem is that only contact for him is via cellphone and he's usually out on jobs. BUT, the man will come out Christmas day or even and will come out at 10pm sometimes to get a customer's water turned back on. Really nice guy and he only charges $50 plus whatever parts he provides for a call and if he has to make more than one visit for the same issue sometimes he doesn't charge to come out.

 

[Zanne]

On a side note, can PEX be attached directly to the pump with the right fitting? Just to form a small bridge to the PVC so the PVC won't keep coming off if there are problems?
I'll have to upload pictures of the current setup-- but right now the PVC is directly on the metal (not sure what adhesive is best for that). and I think there was a check valve... Not sure. I'll have to look at the pictures again.
I need to patch it at least temporarily to stop the leaking so it doesn't burn the pump out and I need to wait for the weather to clear up before I call Mr. Show out. Roads are not in good condition right now.

 

[speedbump]

I have never used Pex, so I'm not the expert in that field. I can tell you that PVC when used on a pump is very stout and won't just vibrate or fall off. It's the heat that builds in the pump when it loses its prime that shrinks the PVC and makes it leak. I wouldn't try to make any marriage of PVC and Pex.

 

[Zanne]

I have never used Pex, so I'm not the expert in that field. I can tell you that PVC when used on a pump is very stout and won't just vibrate or fall off. It's the heat that builds in the pump when it loses its prime that shrinks the PVC and makes it leak. I wouldn't try to make any marriage of PVC and Pex.

Thanks. I suppose if I get the switch problem fixed, the pvc thing won't be as much of an issue.

 

[Zanne]

The pump guy had never heard of the other setup. He said that around here they've always just done the square D plus rod thing-- only one of the problems with mine was that the hole was too far away from where it was mounted. The new switch couldn't mount the same way or in the same spot so he had to put it on a block of wood on top of the tank-- bolt & caulk the wood to the top and then bolt the switch to the block. I'd gotten another rod and float just in case, but apparently the rod was fine.

I'll have to take a picture of the setup later. It's not the most ideal thing, but if it works and doesn't give me problems, I'm ok with it. The new switch is sensitive so it shuts off and turns on easily. I'm still thinking of putting some sort of gasket over the hole around the rod (but not in such a way that it would impede movement) to keep stuff from falling/climbing/flying in from the top.

I had to drive an hour out of the way to go get the float because they didn't have it in stock at HD or Lowes and it was the only pump parts selling place that we know of. If it weren't so far, I'd go return some parts and also ask about extra charges for parts I don't believe they gave me. I looked at everything and tallied it up and it only added up to about half of what they charged. But they didn't actually put down what things were on the receipt-- they used the same 3 letters for everything. But when I looked through the stuff I got, nothing on there had the price of the one mystery item. Still debating if it's worth the gas to go back up and come back though. I probably won't be shopping from that place again.

They keep their PVC pipe that they sell out on a rack sitting in the sun. I told the girl it's not good to leave PVC out in the sun like that and she said "We've never had a problem with it".