Filter location for well system

[lemiwinks]

Recently one of our pipes bust and in the process broke out cartridge filter too. So, now I have the perfect opportunity to fix the system. We have a very heavy iron content in our water, so we use Iron Out salt. We have a pretty high sulfur count too.

Here is the map of our current system:

Well -> Expansion Tank -> Softener -> Heater -> Hot lines
-> Cartridge filter -> Cold lines

1) Our water heater line always bypassed the cartridge filter. This seems wrong.

2) Should the filter go before the softener or after?

 

[KULTULZ]

Recently one of our pipes bust and in the process broke out cartridge filter too. So, now I have the perfect opportunity to fix the system. We have a very heavy iron content in our water, so we use Iron Out salt. We have a pretty high sulfur count too.

Here is the map of our current system:

Well -> Expansion Tank -> Softener -> Heater -> Hot lines
-> Cartridge filter -> Cold lines

1) Our water heater line always bypassed the cartridge filter. This seems wrong.

2) Should the filter go before the softener or after?

IMO...

The filtration should go before the softener to prevent it's using large amounts of salt, excessive back-washing and depletion of the media.

You need a professional analysis of the water and choose proper filtering from there. The WH should only receive treated water.

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

If you don't want to drink it you normally don't want to bath in it or wash your hands with it. Filter needs to cover the water with it eventually. Unless I'm looking at this wrong and it is covered by the softener.heater as well. If you have a high iron content awith it eventually. Unless I'm looking at this wrong and it is covered by the softener.

 

[speedbump]

In line filters are useless for the most part. If your softener isn't taking out all of the iron you need an iron filter. That in line filter does and can not remove iron. All filters should be in line before the water heater.

 

[KULTULZ]

In line filters are useless for the most part.

Not true. You match the filter type (cartridge - IN-OUT - back-flush) to what it is you are trying to filter.

Again, a softener is an ion exchange, not a filter.

 

[speedbump]

Not true. You match the filter type (cartridge - IN-OUT - back-flush) to what it is you are trying to filter.

Again, a softener is an ion exchange, not a filter.

I'm not going to start another debate on in line filters with you. You have your opinion and I have experience!

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

I'm going to have to go and find this original debate. When it comes to iron in the water I have found that in lines don't seem to completely remove the iron, just lessen it.

 

[speedbump]

I'm going to have to go and find this original debate. When it comes to iron in the water I have found that in lines don't seem to completely remove the iron, just lessen it.

All the iron I have dealt with was clear water iron which is dissolved into the water and has to be oxidized before anything can trap it. This means an in line filter without a chlorinator or some other means of oxidizing the iron, will allow it to pass through like it's not even there. Besides that, a "real' iron filter comes in a far greater size than an in line filter. Plus they can be backwashed so you don't have to spend your life savings buying cartridges.

 

[frodo]

https://www.filterwaterdirect.com/products/whole-house-iron-water-filter

How does the Iron Water Filter Work? When water enters the Iron Water Filter, it passes through a bubble of compressed air that adds oxygen to it. The water then passes through a filter bed. The filter material enhances a reaction that separates the iron from your water. The insoluble flakes of iron that result are then caught by the filter bed. The iron free water then flows to your faucets. This iron filter replenishes itself every three days in a process that washes the stored iron out of the filter bed and down the drain, while refilling the compressed air bubble. This all happens automatically during the night. Why Is It So Economical? This iron filter costs almost nothing to run. This is because the filter material will not change chemically during the process, so it is not depleted and will last indefinitely. Another key element in the whole process is the oxygen and that is freely available in the air. Finally, the replenishment process is largely driven by the water pressure in your plumbing system, so the iron filters only running cost is a few dollars a year in electricity. Finally, The Chemistry The filter media, which is Manganese Dioxide based, catalysis a reaction that turns the ferrous iron, usually found in water in the form of ferric oxide bicarbonate which is soluble in water, into ferric oxide and ferric hydroxide which are insoluble. This is the same reaction that takes place when iron-bearing water is exposed to the air and which leads to staining of fixtures.

 

[speedbump]

Frodo, that is a great explanation of how the newer iron filters and sulfur filters work. And it's easier to understand than my off the cuff explanation. That combined with the fact that I could never remember which iron was ferrous or ferric. But if you have the non clear water iron "ferric?" it is already out of solution and can be mostly trapped by one of those pesky in line filters. Of coarse you have to buy a case of cartridges a week.

 

[frodo]

Frodo, that is a great explanation of how the newer iron filters and sulfur filters work. And it's easier to understand than my off the cuff explanation. That combined with the fact that I could never remember which iron was ferrous or ferric. But if you have the non clear water iron "ferric?" it is already out of solution and can be mostly trapped by one of those pesky in line filters. Of coarse you have to buy a case of cartridges a week.

man dont ask me, you re the well and pump guy.

i just deal with the crap in the house, only time i see your little pump house outside is when i go behind it to pee.

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

Thank you. I have spring water that is gravity fed and the iron is really bad. I appreciate the explication and the science behind it. I have enjoyed the education. Got enough that I can go and research the rest myself. Thanks

 

[frodo]

Thank you. I have spring water that is gravity fed and the iron is really bad. I appreciate the explication and the science behind it. I have enjoyed the education. Got enough that I can go and research the rest myself. Thanks

I heard this works, I got the infor from a preing site

run the water thru a plastic 40 gallon barrel full of charcoal then thru a 50 gallon drum of sand with a screened of course

let it filter thru them change charcoal, burn your own

 

[KULTULZ]

I'm not going to start another debate on in line filters with you. You have your opinion and I have experience!

There is no debate. One cannot simply make a blanket statement that cartridge filtration has no purpose or effect.

 

[KULTULZ]

I'm going to have to go and find this original debate. When it comes to iron in the water I have found that in lines don't seem to completely remove the iron, just lessen it.

The subject is cartridge filters. They are not designed or meant to remove iron and/or manganese, they are designed to cope with other impurities. The need for a dedicated iron filter (whatever type) can only be determined by a proper water analysis and you then size the component from there.

 

[KULTULZ]

I'm going to have to go and find this original debate. When it comes to iron in the water I have found that in lines don't seem to completely remove the iron, just lessen it.

http://www.plumbingforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9306

 

[lemiwinks]

So, what I'm getting is the sediment filter should go before the softener, and then I need an analysis of my water to determine what type of iron filter I need to remove the remaining Iron that my softener doesn't neutralize. I can tell you that our water is clear both before and after the softener. Also, holy crap that iron filter is expensive....

 

[frodo]

http://www.wellwaterguide.net/iron-well-water.aspx

 

[KULTULZ]

So, what I'm getting is the sediment filter should go before the softener, and then I need an analysis of my water to determine what type of iron filter I need to remove the remaining Iron that my softener doesn't neutralize. I can tell you that our water is clear both before and after the softener. Also, holy crap that iron filter is expensive....

1) Sediment filter and or separator.

This is optional. It protects the next filter in line from fouling with sediment. Sediment filters are much cheaper than iron filtering media or carbon filters.

2) Chlorine or H2O2 injection (if desired).

3) Separate iron filter (if needed depending on water iron content(s) in water. There are three types, cartridge (low iron content), IN-OUT tank (throw away at end of service life) or back-flush type, the size and capacity matched to iron level(s) in water. These will require service at some point.

4) Carbon filter (again several types).

5) Particulate Filter- Again Optional (To remove any charcoal and or particulates not previously back-flushed) (also needed before treated water is introduced to UV).

6) Softener- A softener is meant for ion exchange, not filtering, although you can but have accelerated special salt usage, more frequent brine reservoir cleaning and back-flushing - media exhaustion.

7) UV- If desired.

8) RO (Drinking water- ice maker -dialysis usually.

The cost is why you need to spec the system exactly to your needs. A simple cartridge or IN-OUT iron filter has much less initial cost and maintenance.

Cartridge Type Iron Filter- https://www.filterwaterdirect.com/products/nsi0-98-iron-removal-filter

 

[frodo]

http://www.wellwaterguide.net/iron-well-water.aspx

before you go another further . take water samples have the county tell you what kind of iron you have

their are 3 types

bacterial
ferric
ferrous

and each one needs a different means of eradication

one can be eradicated using speedbumps method
the other using kultulz filters
the third using a different filter