toilet leaking into overflow pipe

[bridgeboy]

Hi all,
Most of the time it seems, my toilet (see attached pic) drips from the black tube that is held down into the overflow pipe in the center. So I can hear and see a drip, that results in extra little smooth flows in the toilet bowl. Sometimes it runs very hard. I can temporarily remedy it by holding up the float bulb but it comes back. I can permanently adjust the float bulb height by using the plastic screws on the ballcock assembly top, but nothing seems to work.

I have already checked for *external* leakage and there is none.

Please let me know if I can troubleshoot further. This is an American Standard toilet in a new old house I bought but I'm house-poor so want to try to fix this myself without calling a plumber.

More pics forthcoming on request.

Thanks so much, I'm a newbie to this forum and plumbing.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Reedwalker]

Start by replacing the ballcock and flapper.

Buy a Fluidmaster Fill Valve from Lowe's and grap a flapper while you're there. Follow the directions on the box. It's fairly simple.

Good Luck!

 

[bridgeboy]

Wow, thanks!

So it's this:
Fluidmaster | Products | Fill Valves - Anti-Siphon Fill Valve (400A)

and any old flapper like:
Fluidmaster | Products| Flush - Bull's Eye Flapper (503)

?

Thanks,
Dan

P.S. Wow!

 

[Chris]

Wow, thanks!

So it's this:
Fluidmaster | Products | Fill Valves - Anti-Siphon Fill Valve (400A)

and any old flapper like:
Fluidmaster | Products| Flush - Bull's Eye Flapper (503)

?

Thanks,
Dan

P.S. Wow!

Those will work fine.

 

[bridgeboy]

Hi,
OK, and is there a difference in quality between the cheap flapper type I already have (rubber flap) and the more heavy-duty looking one like:

Fluidmaster | Products| Flush - Bull's Eye Super Flapper (501) ?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Reedwalker]

I've never used those "fancy" flappers before. That doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[majakdragon]

The Fluidmaster 400 fill-valves are great. Save the instructions since they also have info for future needs such as if there is a problem and it needs flushed out. Fancy, does not mean it will work any better than plain and simple.

 

[bridgeboy]

Hi all,
I got the new Fluidmaster 400A fill valve and a flapper as advised, and my first adventure is the supply line. It is PEX, and I don't know which of the 4 categories the instructions mention it might be:

1. metal/copper flared tubing (use new cone washer, new coupling nut)
2. metal flanged tubing (reuse existing washer and coupling nut)
3. metal spiral tubing (use existing cone washer but new coupline nut)
4. vinyl/braided connector (captive cone washers already included)

On my actual one (see photos), the nut can slide up and down when not attached, but can't be removed, since the cone type thing at the top seems part of the whole line.

So I guess it's just 4 - reuse the existing line. But I could get the nut off if I unscrewed the line from the supply water metal fixture where the cut-off valve is. Should I try to do that and put in the new one or is the captive cone meant to stay with that nut?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[phishfood]

Just reuse the supply line with cone that is there. Easy pleasy.

 

[havasu]

As Phishfood said, just use what you have as the cheapest possible solution. In my opinion, that supply line looks quite a few years old, and is going to be your weak link. For a few dollars, I would upgrade to flexible stainless steel. This plastic pipe has a short life expectancy, and can cause thousands of dollars in damage if it bursts. At Lake Havasu, the repair cost for a burst supply line averages $45,000 - $75,000 in the area where I have my summer home. Thank God for insurance!

 

[bridgeboy]

Hi,
OK, now cleaning the tank on the inside with some paper towels, the existing black rubber washers were just dissolving in water almost - a swirl of black. I'm not sure if I should replace them.

Should I clean out the tank with something before I put the new valve in?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[havasu]

What you are seeing is quite normal. There are replacement seals available, but you will have to separate the tank from the toilet. If you want it to last for several more years, then do it. If you just want to leave it alone, it will be fine. Get a bucket of water, open the flapper, and rinse it until clean.

 

[PlumbingTheCape]

Just use some toilet paper to dry the surface before putting the valve in.

To connect the valve:
See if you can get hold of a braided hose, similar to this http://www.oursbiz.com/Products/b/1...g-Hose-Braided-Hose-HP-220-Series--414505.jpg

Darren Bosman
-Master Plumber-
Cape Town's leading Plumbing and Drainage contractor - Home

 

[bridgeboy]

Hi all,
OK I got 9" braided hose, about 1" longer than the PEX I had originally, but now I see why it was PEX. It was custom cut to fit a particular length. The 9" braided hose will fit but only if it is "S"-curved unnaturally. Should I still go with the braided hose? It's the best I could find at the big home improvement store. I could try some other kind of store that would have more selection?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[bridgeboy]

OK, for better or for worse, I reused the old PEX toilet connector.

The next step in the instructions says to install the fill valve so that the "C.L." mark is at least 1" above the rim of the overflow tube (above the flush valve). I read that this is to prevent toilet water from getting back into the main fresh water pipe.

This unfortunately means that the top of the fill valve is too high for the toilet lid by about 1 cm.

I could trim down the overflow tube (how?) so that the fill valve can sit lower and fit inside the tank, but that would mean that the water level (which I read has to be 1" below the overflow tube) would be lower than the engraved "water level" arrow mark on the inside wall of the tank.

Which way should I go? Trim the overflow tube and lower the water in the tank, or lower the fill valve but the CL mark would be very close to the level of the rim of the overflow tube?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[havasu]

Regarding the supply line, I usually prefer one that is 6-8" longer that the straight line measurement, and put a loop in it for flexation. They always seem to adjust better with an added loop.

As far as the height, those fill valves are adjustable. Just grap the top, while holding the bottom, and it will screw in or out. You need to adjust it about the same height as the old one. This way, they will not stick out the top of the lid.

The mark inside the tank is designed to allow for the best possible flush, with the least amount of water. Since you are replacing the "guts" that line is for a close reference only. Just make sure the water stops about 1/2" from the overflow tube.

Hang in there, you're almost done. Once you see how easy it is to install, you can help your neighbors, family and friends!

 

[bridgeboy]

Hi all,
OK, done (including flapper - attached it to existing hooks on overflow tube, and not using the ring included with the flapper). It seems great, but I have 2 questions.

1. The water level adjustment knob on the fill valve - it says it can be used to change the water level, but it seems fine - about 1" below the rim of the overflow tube. Just to see, I turn it, and it is hard to turn and doesn't seem to do anything. Is it supposed to be in a threaded groove to screw up and down?

2. The amount of resting water in the toilet below where one sits is low. I know that's good conservation but I kind of like a little more water. Is there a way to moderate that?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[havasu]

I believe you have the fill valve too low for your toilet. I wouldn't recommend turning the fill valve while it is installed as there is a chance of cracking the porcelain. Disconnect the supply line, remove the base nut, and after removing it, twist the body of the valve until it expands. You will hear a click as it expands. The vertical tube has a stainless steel pincher which allows adjustment, but from the picture, it appears to already be at the maximum heighth. It's easy to drop the water level with this adjustment pincher, but if it is at its maximum level, your only choice is to adjust the entire tube.