Sewage/Stack Pipe Advice

[chipwager]

I'm renovating my condo and could use some advice from an experienced plumber. I'd like to add two additional bathrooms toward the back of the condo and remove the current bathroom. The location of the current sewage drain is about 35 feet to the proposed bathrooms. I spoke with my architect who states that a sewage line must be in the house and cannot be run on the outside of the building. I am on the 4th floor and the condos below me are extravagantly finished and therefore I cannot go straight down to the basement through their condos. So I think I'm left with only one choice...find a way to access the current sewage pipe. I spoke with a plumber and he says that the distance is not an issue but having to cut many (30 or so) joist in the floor to run a 3-4" sewage pipe is not feasible as it would weaken the structural rigidity. He has no other ideas and says my proposed floor plan is not doable. Can you please help and provide any suggestions on how to run the sewage line? Thanks.

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello",

You might want to look into `SANIFLO` Products - Which include `SANIBEST` - These are W.C. Macerators with built in Pumps - Normally used when you would want to Install Bathrooms - Utility Rooms etc. in `Unusual` areas - Basements - Below the Drainage System for example - OR - Roof Extensions/Conversions where the `Soil & Waste Stack` is `Remote` from where the New Sanitary Ware etc. is to be installed.

As these are available throughout the U.K. and Europe - I assume that they are available in the U.S. - ?? - Just one point - The Macerators connect directly to a REAR OUTLET W.C. Pan - Are THOSE available in the U.S. - ??

While these [Various Models] Products are capable of `Pumping Up` - they are also capable of Pumping LONG Distances - Using `Small Bore` Pipe - THIS may solve the Problem of not being able to Cut `Joists` for a 4" Pipe run, Also the `Fall` of the `Outlet Pipe` does not have to be as much as that for a 4" Pipe - because the `Sewage` is being Pumped to the `Stack` OR to the Drain.

They are installed connected to the W.C. - REAR OUTLET Pan - behind it - usually `Boxed In` - I assume that this type of W.C. Pan IS available in the U.S. - ?? Otherwise this `Post` is completely useless !! The waste pipes enter the `Pump Box` via connections - there are `Prescribed` minimum Heights/ `Falls` for the waste pipe runs - There is obviously an `Outlet/Pumped Pipe and the units require an Electrical Supply - Typically `Switched/Fused` external to the Bathroom to comply with Electrical Regulations/Codes.

Because these are `Pumped Macerators` there IS a `Pump Noise` - I wanted to make You aware of this straight away - but I have seen MANY of these installed `near` Bedrooms etc. - where the occupants of the Home did not seem to be `bothered` by the Pump sounds.

I would advise - If possible that You visit a Bathroom/Plumbers Merchants where one of the Saniflo Products is installed in the `Showroom` - to Hear the Pump Sound for Yourself - prior to deciding on installing them at Home.

It may be possible for You to Install the smaller pipework either `Under Floor` or perhaps a route could be found where the pipework is `Boxed in` ??

Something that is VITAL is that You obtain [Download ?] the Manufacturers Installation Instructions - As although these `Pumped Macerators` can `Work Wonders` - there are LIMITATIONS to what You can and cannot do with the Pipework.

You MUST be completely Familiar with these BEFORE deciding to Purchase/Install - One Error in the installation can mean that NOTHING gets `Pumped Away` - BUT `Correctly Installed` they enable one to Install Bathrooms, Shower Rooms, Utility Rooms etc. in places where NO other method of `Drainage` is possible.

Here in the U.K. the `Sanitary Regulations` quite correctly state that you cannot use these Macerators/Pumps for your `Primary` W.C. - As in the event of a `Breakdown` or Power Cut - you MUST NOT be relying on a Macerator W.C.

Obviously that is NOT a consideration for your Home - as You have another W.C. - in the event of such an occurrence.

What I would advise is that You check that these Products are `Allowed` by the Codes in Your Location - Local Authority.

I would also suggest that You give copies of the Installation Instructions etc. to your Plumber - Who MAY `notice` something that means that You cannot Install these Units at your Home - It is well worth a `Detailed Survey` of the requirements and the `Proposed Works` to ENSURE that these Units ARE `Suitable`.

I obviously cannot state that You will be able to use these Units - They are just a suggestion of something that MAY be suitable - If NOT - I cannot see another way to Install your proposed Bathrooms as You are `Restricted` by the Construction of your Home and of those Homes around You.


There are a number of Models shown on the website - you can select from the range by what you want to connect to the Saniflo - and what you want to achieve with the `Waste` - regarding `Pumping Up` - or Pumping Horizontally - large distance [ I think over 120 Feet ?] - BUT - As I mentioned - You MUST ensure that You select the correct Product AND [Download ?] Read the Manufacturers Installation Instructions - `Cover to Cover` - Please make sure that You CAN achieve what the Instructions state - As an Error could make the whole Installation of the Bathrooms and Saniflo Pumped Macerators - `USELESS` !!

"Please don`t take offence" - I want You to be `Fully Informed` that these Products MUST be Installed Correctly - The last thing that I want to do is to `Recommend` a Product - You purchase them - One for EACH Bathroom that has a W.C. - They somehow get installed incorrectly [not hard to do !] - The Bathrooms are installed - NOW the WHOLE JOB is `No Good` !!

I would be interested as to whether these Saniflo Products are `Suitable` for Your situation - perhaps You could `Post` a reply on here - "Thanks".

"Regards",


CHRISM.


P.S. "Sorry" to those of you who dislike my `Wall of Text` Posts - I HAD to ensure that the `CORRECT` Product Installation was `EMPHASISED` - And I wanted to describe these Products - So that this Post was `Informative` - I hope.

 

[havasu]

Hi Chrism!

Don't worry about the wall of text. Some things need to be explained fully, and you provide a valuable service to us!

 

[CHRISM]

"Thanks Havasu",

I appreciate the fact that You know WHY I `Post` some very lengthy writings.

I DO try to ensure that the person that I am trying to `Help` with my suggestions can `Fully Understand` what I am explaining - Also I try to anticipate questions that might arise FROM My suggestions.

And of course IF I know that the `Installation Requirements` of something MUST be `Adhered to` or the Installation would be compromised - I HAVE TO explain those `Possible Problems`.

As You know - this has led to some `Epic Posts` on here !!

I hope that the People that may have received some `Good` Information and `Suggestions` from Me - [If anyone has ?] - would have appreciated the `Effort` that I took to explain ??

I am NOT a `Natural Typist` - So I take much longer than those of us who are `Good / Fast` at Typing - My mentioning that a `Wall of Text` takes Me a long time - might defer the `Animosity` of those who think that I just write `At Length` out of `Self Promotion` - ??

"Thanks Again Havasu" - Good to hear from You.


"Regards",


CHRISM.

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello chipwager",

I know that You will not have had enough time yet to have `Researched` Saniflo Products - let alone `Decided` upon anything - BUT - Could You just let Me know that You HAVE read My `Post` - ??

JUST because it would be `Nice` to know that after Typing out my `Wall of Text` - [Someone else`s description] - You HAVE seen it ??

I replied to Your `Post` after looking at it in the `Not Answered` section of the website - I was wondering IF You had `come back` to here at all ??

I hope that You have read my Information - and that it will be Helpful to You.

"Regards",

CHRISM.

 

[CHRISM]

I sent chipwager a `Private Message` asking IF He had seen my `Post` - He has not replied or `Posted` an answer on here - So I assume that He has not been `On`the Forum lately.

I hope that He has not got any `Problems`.


MY ORIGINAL POST CONTAINS ERRORS - IN THAT I DID NOT `NOTICE` THAT YOU INTEND TO REMOVE THE
EXISTING BATHROOM - AFTER INSTALLING THE TWO `NEW` BATHROOMS - MY ADVICE & SUGGESTIONS WERE BASED UPON YOU STILL HAVING A W.C. CONNECTED TO THE EXISTING DRAINAGE.

AT NO TIME WOULD I RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE INSTALLED `MACERATOR` UNITS FOR USE ON W.C. & BATHROOM WASTE PIPES WHERE ONLY THESE `MACERATOR` UNITS PROVIDED THE W.C.

YOU WILL READ IN MY ORIGINAL ANSWER TO YOU THAT I STATE SOMETHING LIKE: YOU WILL HAVE THE EXISTING W.C. - REGARDING A POWER FAILURE FOR EXAMPLE - THAT WILL SHOW [WITH OTHER COMMENTS]
THAT I WAS WRITING WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE [NOT SEEN] THAT THE EXISTING BATHROOM WAS TO BE REMOVED.

I APOLOGISE `UNRESERVEDLY` FOR THIS - MY `NOT NOTICING` ONE OF THE FIRST STATEMENTS IN YOUR `POST` - IS `HARD` FOR ME - AS A `PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER` TO UNDERSTAND - HOW THIS COULD HAPPEN ??

I AM HOPING THAT I CAN PERHAPS `REWORD` MY POST - TO `MAKE SENSE` OF WHAT I WROTE - AND WHAT I `SHOULD` HAVE WRITTEN.


MODERATORS - I HAVE USED CAPITAL LETTERS HERE - AS IT IS `IMPORTANT` TO `CORRECT` MY ERROR REGARDING THIS SUBJECT/QUESTION - I WANTED IT TO BE `NOTICEABLE` !! - PLEASE `EXCUSE` ME ON THIS OCASSION - "THANKS".


CHRISM

 

[Caduceus]

Chipwager, in your post you stated that you plan to remove the existing bathroom and have the two new built. If you lose power there will be no way of flushing waste as proposed. With the information that you gave I may have to side with the plumber who visited your home. You are well aware of the obstacles and sometimes the planets just aren't going to align to give you what you want. It is always easier for an on-site visit to try to find a solution, but maybe if you got a few other plumbers to assess it somebody can find a way to get it done. Condo jobs usually require more clearances from more authorities than standard remodel jobs with the involvement of residents, condo associations and building inspectors. This always make it more of an uphill battle than expected. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

[CHRISM]

"Hello", In my Original `Post` in answer to the `Questioner` I stated that in the U.K. where I am based - the Local Authorities do NOT allow the Saniflo Macerator Products for W.C. / Bathrooms to be for provision of the PRIMARY/ ONLY W.C. - Quite rightly - in case of Power Cuts or the `Breakdown` of the Macerator Unit.

I had NOT `taken in` the fact that He was intending to `Remove the existing W.C. / Bathroom` - Although I now hope that He would realise from my comments about NOT having these Macerators as the Primary/Only W.C. - that this changes whether ANY of My `Suggestions` can be implemented.

I have also `Edited` my `Post `to chipwager` to contain an `Explanation` of my Error - using Capital Letters - to `Highlight` this - He should NOT be able to `Miss` that - Unlike My `missing` of the `Crucial Information` in His `Post` !

This Error by Me has meant that My `Answers` were written around an incorrect premise - I.E. That He was going to have kept the Existing W.C. [Existing Bathroom] - which is NOT the case.

I would NEVER suggest that any Installation of `Macerator`/ Pumped W.C.`s would be the ONLY kind of W.C. on the premises ! - You MUST have a `Conventional` W.C. - In the event of a `Power Failure` or the `Breakdown` of the `Macerator` Unit [ I did mention this in original Post].

Perhaps there is a situation where although He wants to remove the Existing Bathroom - It might be possible to create a small W.C. area - connecterd to the EXISTING W.C. DRAINAGE - ?? - To be certain of having a `Working W.C.` in the event of a `Power Cut` - ?? IT would obviously be `Very Unlikely` that these Macerator Units` would both `Fail` at the same time - although I could not state that it would be `Impossible` in the event of an `Electrical Surge`[?].

"Thank You Plumb-Crazy" - For pointing out the situation regarding for example `Loss of Power`- causing Me to `Re-Read` the Original `Post` and see that I had NOT `absorbed` the `Remove Existing Bathroom` section of the `Post`.

My ENTIRE `Post` was written with me thinking that there would always be the `Original/Existing W.C. in existence - As `Back Up`.

THIS is very unusual for Me - [ Not noticing a `VITAL`aspect of an Installation] - I Apologise to the Original `Questioner` - Who I don`t think has even seen these answers [?] - And to all of the Plumbers on this Forum - I am `Suitably Embarrassed` !! - AND as a `Professional` who is dealing with `Specifications`etc. on a `Daily Basis` - I am very `Disappointed` in Myself regarding this `Error`.

I will Endeavour to ensure that this does NOT happen again.



"Regards to All",



CHRISM.