Rheem ProTerra Hybrid High Efficiency Electric Water Heater Installation

[Srshep]

I recently purchased a Rheem ProTerra 10-Year Hybrid High Efficiency Smart Tank Electric Water Heater and had it installed "professionally" and I noticed that my recovery time even on High Demand mode was an extended period of time. I looked at the wiring for the installation and noticed that the installer used 12/2 Romex with a 20A two pole breaker. After reading the manual I see that 10/2 Romex with a 30A breaker is required with the 4500 wattage.

My questions are:

Would the 12/2 wire and 20A breaker slow my recovery time?

How does the installation look? I had copper previously and would prefer the same but was not given an option.

I also included pics of the old gas hot water heater installation for reference.

 

[HWSleuth]

Are you sure the the element is working? Normally, if it has a 4500 watt element, that draws 18.75 amps. That should have tripped the breaker. Be sure and check your “professionally install”!

 

[Srshep]

Are you sure the the element is working? Normally, if it has a 4500 watt element, that draws 18.75 amps. That should have tripped the breaker. Be sure and check your “professionally install”!

The element appears to be working per the app. I was actually wrong about the breaker installed. It’s a 20A. I’m going to have the proper wiring done with the proper breaker. Do you think the incorrect wire could cause me to lose recovery time even with the elements working in your opinion?

 

[GReynolds929]

Who hangs an expansion tank on CPVC Like that!???SMH. If the WH is only fed by 120v vs 240v than the recovery will suck. Rheem does make 120v models. Check the model number and see.

 

[Srshep]

Who hangs an expansion tank on CPVC Like that!???SMH. If the WH is only fed by 120v vs 240v than the recovery will suck. Rheem does make 120v models. Check the model number and see.

Am I not receiving 240v with 12/2 and a 20A breaker? Sounds like this is obviously my problem

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Couple of things...

First, your water heater is not a Rheem, it's a Richmond. Maybe a minor point, but that's the brand/labeling. Sometimes units have slightly different stated specifications and or requirements.

Your water heater comes in a number of different sizes with different capacities and wattages, thus different wiring requirements. How many gallons? What's the model number?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/WebPartners/ProductDocuments/2AC6C28E-2FC6-4FAB-9A1D-FE189BB9B57E.pdf
Just going with your 4500W, yes you are supposed to have a 30A breaker. That would require 10 gauge wiring. BUT, you would have 10-3 (not 10-2) as you need two hot legs to get 240VAC. (each leg to neutral is 120V; hot to hot is 240V).

However, a typical 20A circuit can handle up to 2400 watts. Thus, it's possible that with both legs hot at 240V, you can run 4800 watts. Here's the rub; you don't want to run a circuit that close to capacity for any length of time. Eventually your breaker (the conjoined dual breaker) will trip; wiring may get warm, and constant overloads can lead to fire.

So, get the electrician back, change the wiring to 10 gauge, and the breaker to 30A as called for.

And as @GReynolds929 pointed out, who hangs an expansion tank like that? Your last plumbing job with copper was much nicer and more professional.

 

[sarg]

4500 Watt element ÷ 240 Volts = 18.75 Amps
A 25 amp breaker will work ....... At least the one I've been using for 40 years has held up fine.
Richmond Water Heaters are manufactured by Rheem®

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

That may be, @sarg but one must always defer to the manufacturer specs.
And, there is not a 25A breaker there, but a 20A.
That 18.75 A is kind of close to 20A; won't pop a breaker but you don't want to run things that close to the limit of the wire.

Best to follow the manufacturer's specs.

 

[Srshep]

That may be, @sarg but one must always defer to the manufacturer specs.
And, there is not a 25A breaker there, but a 20A.
That 18.75 A is kind of close to 20A; won't pop a breaker but you don't want to run things that close to the limit of the wire.

Best to follow the manufacturer's specs.

I am going to switch to the proper breaker and wire but my question is with the current setup am I not receiving the proper voltage to the water heater? Is this why I am seeing VERY slow recovery times?

 

[Srshep]

Couple of things...

First, your water heater is not a Rheem, it's a Richmond. Maybe a minor point, but that's the brand/labeling. Sometimes units have slightly different stated specifications and or requirements.

Your water heater comes in a number of different sizes with different capacities and wattages, thus different wiring requirements. How many gallons? What's the model number?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/WebPartners/ProductDocuments/2AC6C28E-2FC6-4FAB-9A1D-FE189BB9B57E.pdf
Just going with your 4500W, yes you are supposed to have a 30A breaker. That would require 10 gauge wiring. BUT, you would have 10-3 (not 10-2) as you need two hot legs to get 240VAC. (each leg to neutral is 120V; hot to hot is 240V).

However, a typical 20A circuit can handle up to 2400 watts. Thus, it's possible that with both legs hot at 240V, you can run 4800 watts. Here's the rub; you don't want to run a circuit that close to capacity for any length of time. Eventually your breaker (the conjoined dual breaker) will trip; wiring may get warm, and constant overloads can lead to fire.

So, get the electrician back, change the wiring to 10 gauge, and the breaker to 30A as called for.

And as @GReynolds929 pointed out, who hangs an expansion tank like that? Your last plumbing job with copper was much nicer and more professional.

Would you recommend copper vs CPVC? I was not happy that there were no copper lines run when I got home. I also paid $825 for this installation.

 

[GReynolds929]

If the breaker is a single pole and not a double than most likely you are not getting 240v. The only way to be sure is to use a multimeter and measure the voltage at the water heater. Regarding breaker size iirc load cannot be more than 80% of max rating and manufacture specs trump minimum code req’s.

CPVC as it ages hardens and becomes stronger against internal pressure, while becoming significantly less flexible as a result. Which is why I would not hang anything on it, supported or not. It is fine if it’s not disturbed, but handle with care otherwise. My boss had a toilet angle stop attached to CPVC break off in his hand just by trying to turn it off! Always back up whatever you’re working on, especially when it’s attached to CPVC.

 

[Stout Mechanical]

What mode do you have it set in?
How big of a room is it in? I can see in your pics it is next to your furnace, but are there vents in the duct work supply in that specific room allowing heat to flow directly into the area where the heater is ?

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

The breaker shown is a double pole conjoined 20A. If that’s the one used it’s wired as 220V. If wired properly, the two hot legs are black and red; white is neutral and bare is ground. That should be NM 10-3 wire for a 30A circuit.

IF one uses plastic pipe it shouldn’t be any closer than 6” to the top of the tank or exit points. Nobody would argue that copper isn’t better; it is. You have a pretty expensive tank, why plumb it with cheap pipe? I mean, seriously; the rest of the plumbing there is copper why not just stick with that? Yeah it kind of goes with "what were they thinking" or, secretly "let's do this as cheap as possible, the homeowner won't know or care"... Do it once and do it right. If the whole house were PEX or something, that's would be different. I can clearly see that this plastic pipe connects to copper....

If any doubt about the wiring get a qualified electrician to look at it and change to manufacturers recommendations. If you can do it yourself great; it's not that difficult; there are plenty of instructional videos and written docs on how to turn off a breaker, remove it from the panel, disconnect the wiring, get the proper sized breaker, proper gauge wiring, and rewire the whole thing. If you don't feel comfortable than don't try, but get someone qualified; and by all means, read the manual.

 

[Twowaxhack]

The breaker shown is a double pole conjoined 20A. If that’s the one used it’s wired as 220V. If wired properly, the two hot legs are black and red; white is neutral and bare is ground. That should be NM 10-3 wire for a 30A circuit.

IF one uses plastic pipe it shouldn’t be any closer than 6” to the top of the tank or exit points. Nobody would argue that copper isn’t better; it is. You have a pretty expensive tank, why plumb it with cheap pipe? I mean, seriously; the rest of the plumbing there is copper why not just stick with that? Yeah it kind of goes with "what were they thinking" or, secretly "let's do this as cheap as possible, the homeowner won't know or care"... Do it once and do it right. If the whole house were PEX or something, that's would be different. I can clearly see that this plastic pipe connects to copper....

If any doubt about the wiring get a qualified electrician to look at it and change to manufacturers recommendations. If you can do it yourself great; it's not that difficult; there are plenty of instructional videos and written docs on how to turn off a breaker, remove it from the panel, disconnect the wiring, get the proper sized breaker, proper gauge wiring, and rewire the whole thing. If you don't feel comfortable than don't try, but get someone qualified; and by all means, read the manual.

Sorry but a water heater is wired with 10-2 not 10-3.

Sure, 10-3 would work but it’s a waste of wire.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Couple of things...

First, your water heater is not a Rheem, it's a Richmond. Maybe a minor point, but that's the brand/labeling. Sometimes units have slightly different stated specifications and or requirements.

Your water heater comes in a number of different sizes with different capacities and wattages, thus different wiring requirements. How many gallons? What's the model number?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/WebPartners/ProductDocuments/2AC6C28E-2FC6-4FAB-9A1D-FE189BB9B57E.pdf
Just going with your 4500W, yes you are supposed to have a 30A breaker. That would require 10 gauge wiring. BUT, you would have 10-3 (not 10-2) as you need two hot legs to get 240VAC. (each leg to neutral is 120V; hot to hot is 240V).

However, a typical 20A circuit can handle up to 2400 watts. Thus, it's possible that with both legs hot at 240V, you can run 4800 watts. Here's the rub; you don't want to run a circuit that close to capacity for any length of time. Eventually your breaker (the conjoined dual breaker) will trip; wiring may get warm, and constant overloads can lead to fire.

@Mitchell-DIY-Guy
You know a lot about electrical......to not know the difference between 10-2 and 10-3 Romex.

The typical 4500 watt water heater uses a 10-2 with ground and a double pole 30amp breaker.

Not 10-3 with ground. 10-3 has 3 conductors plus a ground. Typically white, red and black.

That’s the rub......

But let me guess, you had a house once.........