Pumptec Pump Protector Tripping

[atlasengineer]

Hello everyone. I am in the middle of troubleshooting a plumbing situation I am experiencing and have come looking for some help. Here is the story:

After being on vacation for a week away from home we returned and at first everything seemed to work fine. We flushed a few toilets, washed some hands, cleaned some dishes, took a shower, started a load of laundry and all was well. Then, while running the kitchen faucet, the water pressure went away to where there was no water flow and the washing machine had also stopped. I headed over to have a look where the water pressure tank and electronics are located and immediately noticed the Pumptec box was indicating a tripped circuit and the water pressure gage was reading 0. I turned off the water pump breaker and turned it back on several times. Each time the tripped light would be off and the green light would be on indicating the pump was starting up/running. After several seconds and no pressure increase, the tripped light would come back on. I then removed the Pumptec cover and located the reset relay timer setting. This was set on 45min and I wanted to shorten this so I could see what would happen when it reset. I changed the setting to two minutes and waited two minutes. The tripped light went off, the green power light stayed on, the pump cut on just fine, and the water pressure began to rise as it should. Once the correct pressure was reached, the pump cut off. I then restarted the washing machine, flushed the toilet, and turned on a couple of faucets in order to get the water pressure to drop below the pump kick on pressure. The pressure dropped, the pump turned on as it should, and the water pressure rose again. At this point I thought I had gotten off easy and it was just an electrical problem that I had solved. I set the Pumptec reset timer to 15min and wrapped it up for the night and went to bed. Some more toilets were flushed, faucets ran, and more laundry started. My wife calls me at work the next morning to tell me that "the water quit working again." I took her through the steps over the phone to set the Pumptec reset timer back to two minutes to see if it would start working again when it reset itself. This did not help initially when she cut the pump back on it tripped again after the 2 minute reset. I had to get off the phone at this point but told her I would call back in a while. She called me back in about an hour to tell me it started working again and she started the washing machine back up. That is where we are at this point but I need to figure out what is causing this......................pump going bad, well drying up, Pumptec pump protector malfunctioning?

A couple of notes: 1.) The power went out for several hours at some point while we were on vacation 2.) Five months ago, the check valve on my submersible pump went bad so our water pressure would slowly drop even when no water was being consumed. The pump was pulled and another check valve was added in series with the bad one as a solution to the problem. Everything had been working fine up until now.

Thanks for any help anybody can provide.

 

[speedbump]

I don't know how old your pump is, but if it's over 5 years, the pump guy should have replaced the entire pump not just the check valve.

The Pumptec is there because your well is a low yield well and can cause harm to your pump and motor if the water level gets down to the pump. That's where the Pumptec comes in, it senses the low amperage when the pump runs out of water and turns it off. It could be that your well is producing less water than
before. It could also be that your pump is dying and the Pumptec senses the higher amperage and trips.

Your an engineer so I'm sure you know what an ammeter is. If you can get your hands on one, this will tell the tale. Either low amperage or high amperage. It may take some time for it to act up when you want it too. You know how that goes. My truck never acts up for the Mechanic.

 

[atlasengineer]

I did indeed check the current draw of the 3/4 hp pump and it was around 9.4 amps which is indeed high. We were not sure of the age of the pump but it looked to be in really good condition on the outside so I elected to not replace it. The timing of the trouble cropping up with us being on vacation and the power outage was the strange thing. I wanted to see if anybody had experienced a similar issue. The Pumptec has not tripped since my last post.

Another issue has cropped up as well. When the water pressure drops to the pump start up pressure and the pump kicks on, there is a few seconds when the water pressure drops to zero and we loose flow throughout the house (the shower cut completely off) until the pump quickly builds pressure again. I am thinking this may be due to low air pressure in the precharged pressure tank with the recent temperature drop and all. I haven't had a chance to check this yet. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[speedbump]

The amperage your seeing is more like a 1hp would pull. It's not terribly high, but is uncharacteristically high. Something is not right somewhere.

Your tank may have too much air in the tank, letting the bladder hit bottom before the pump comes on. It could also be that the water in the droppipe has dropped and it takes a little time to get back to the tank. Maybe indicating another bad check valve or hole in the pipe.

 

[atlasengineer]

Alright, the Pumptec tripped again today while I was at work but then started working again after an unknown number of reset attempts. When I got home it was still working fine. I checked the current draw again and it was the same (9.4 to 9.7). I went on about my business and started taking a shower. Toward the end of the shower the water cut out. The Pumptec had tripped again so I connected the meter to wait for a reset: When the reset kicks in and the red tripped light goes out leaving the green light on, the current draw jumps up to approximately 26 amps. There is then another click and current draw drops to 0.43 amps for several seconds. Then another click and current goes back up to 26 amps for a few seconds. Once again a click and amperage drops to 1.02 (this all while only the green light is on). One last click and the red tripped light comes on while current draw remains at 1.01 until the next reset. This has been going on for over an hour.

 

[speedbump]

Do you know if you have a three wire pump or two wire pump? If three wire there will be a control box somewhere with a capacitor, relay and possibly and overload protector. There could also be a run capacitor, but doubtful. The relay could be faulty. The start cap could be on it's way out also. There could also be bad connections in the box.

I have no idea what's going on with the less than two amp readings, that's just plain strange. You may have some kind of backfeed going on somewhere.

Have you been watching the voltage as well as the amperage while this is happening? If not, it might be a good idea.

 

[atlasengineer]

It is a three wire and there is a control box of course. I checked the resistances across the components and they were above the recommended replacement levels. I have not monitored voltages. The Pumptec is still tripped today so whatever the problem is I believe it has given out for good.

 

[speedbump]

Where did you get the values to look for in the relay and caps?

If you still have the amp meter. Put it on the yellow wire from the box, then reset the Pumptec. If the amperage remains 0, the overload protector is open, or you have an open winding. If it jumps up to 40 amps or so and stays until the overload trips again, Either a start cap is bad, the relay points aren't making a connection, or your start winding is open or shorted.

 

[atlasengineer]

The resistance values were on a sticker on the back of the control box lid.

The amp meter was on the yellow wire in the scenario I described above.

 

[speedbump]

I can't say as I've ever seen the values on the box itself, but maybe I never looked that close.

Looks like it's time to call a Pump Installer or Well Driller.

 

[atlasengineer]

I removed the capacitor and discharged it ( though I don't believe it had a charge). It looks to be in bad shape with some leakage/corrosion. I tested it with a multi meter using the ohm setting and touching both poles and then reversing the leads. I didn't get any readings doing this (0L) so I'm thinking it is dead. I will try and find a replacement tomorrow. Would a capacitor going bad be consistent with the system working intermittently and then finally quitting for good? Why would this cause the pumptec to trip? Could this have caused damage to the pump motor allowing it to reset so many times with a bad capacitor?

 

[speedbump]

It's called a start cap because that's what it does. Starts the motor. So if you have no reading, it's open and shot. A motor not starting many times can heat it up. The wire in a motor has a thin coating of varnish which can get hot enough to burn off. Once two wires in a winding make electrical contact... POOF! So no, you didn't do it any good.

The Pumptec detects high and low amperage as well as high and low voltage. So the prolonged start current caused the tripping.

 

[atlasengineer]

Replaced the capacitor, flipped the breaker, and the pump started right up with no trip. Seems to have been the problem. The pump is now drawing approx. 6.7 amps. Thanks for the input everyone!

 

[havasu]

Wow...great job!

 

[speedbump]

Max amps on a 3/4hp Franklin motor is 8 amps, so your in good shape. Glad you got it going.