No soil stack through the roof?!

[mxmom]

Hello all!

Just happened to stumble upon this site when trying to search for answers on why we don't have a soil stack that goes through our roof? So hope I can explain everything so it's understandable.

House is a single story ranch(?) type house with a partially finished walk-out basement. We are presently in the process of remodeling a small bedroom and turning it into a bathroom with a washer/dryer to be included. We presently have the all the sheetrock removed for the electrical and plumbing work that will need to be done. The current bathroom is in the adjacent room that we are remodeling (shares one wall).

Trying to figure out how to go about installing new drain and vent lines for the new bathroom, but with the old plumbing the way it is, we're unsure how to go about it.

This picture shows the current waste line that comes down from the existing toilet and goes out through to the septic system. The 2" drain line attached to it is from our kitchen sink and the washing machine currently located in another room off the kitchen.

This picture shows the bathtub and sink connected to that drain line and the pipe in the foreground is a 2" galvanized pipe that extends up through to the roof. (This is the ONLY vent pipe for all of the plumbing in the house).

This picture shows where that 2" galvanized pipe comes up into the old bedroom that we're remodeling. It comes up through the floor, to the attic and up through the roof. (There had been a closet there previously so the pipe was hidden from view). Where you see the current bathtub plumbing is where we intend to install the new toilet. The new vanity will be about where that pipe comes up through the floor. On the other side of the room will be where we'll put the new the tub/shower and washer/dryer.

Hoping that someone can enlighten us on how/where we need to begin on this project? (I.E. do we need a 3"-4" stack that goes through to the roof? Where would we place it if we needed one? How do we install the vents for all the fixtures when they are going to be located on opposite sides of the room?)

Oddly enough, we've lived in this house for almost 30 years and have never had any issues with the way this is currently set up!

Thanks for your time!
Vicki

 

[FlushMasta]

do we need a 3"-4" stack that goes through to the roof?

no

How do we install the vents for all the fixtures when they are going to be located on opposite sides of the room?

air admittance valves are your friends

edit:
wait... did you install the new pvc pipes? if so, call a professional...
i feel like im being trolled

 

[mxmom]

Thank you Flushmasta, for your reply. I was really surprised to hear that a 3"-4" vent pipe wasn't needed! Guess I thought that was standard plumbing requirements? But if you seen the way this house was built (1950's) NOTHING is standard here!lol

Yes, we did do the installation of the pvc pipes. Replaced them about 7-8 years ago when we found a large crack in the top of the cast iron pipe that was originally used. We only "copied" what was originally there, nothing more, nothing less. We didn't see the need to replace the galvanized vent pipe at the time, thus the reason that it's still where it's currently located.

We have considered the option of using AAV's in this remodel project, but have heard they should only be used (as mostly) a last resort. So would like to try and vent this in the normal way (if possible).

May I inquire why you have suggested in calling in a professional? Is there something terribly amiss here?

Thanks again!

 

[FlushMasta]

well, judging by your second picture... you mention a tub, which is most cases is trapped below the floor... and i don't see a p-trap anywhere, maybe its out of the frame... and the sanitary tees on their back and the use of what looks like pressure pvc fittings... a bit of a no-no... if, as you say, you piped the new plumbing identically to what was existing; i can respect that... although what was allowed and worked in the '50s doesn't exactly work now or meet code requirements... leaving the galvanized where it is is fine, the fittings chose to pipe the configuration would be considered incorrect.

there's nothing wrong with AAV's... its just another option, although its required to have an access of some sort in case it may fail...
you mentioned you have an attic. if it's in your best interest eliminate the use of AAV's tie your vents into the existing vent through the roof... and if the other reason for you not to use the AAV's to avoid having access panels (for aesthetic reasons), stub them up into the attic for access.

edit:
might i add; if you were to sell the house and a home inspector or home buyer request to see a permit for the plumbing modifications... typically its unlikely... the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'/'out of sight out of mind' rules apply to that...

 

[LiQuId]

you cant just add cheater vents and call it good... a building must have a 3" pipe that extends through the building, this is a code requirement where you are connected to a public sewer and is intended to provide ventilation to assist drainage in the sewers. on septic i cant see it being a requirement, however i dont know for sure.

Cheater vents ( called also, air admitance valves ) are for island fixtures, it sounds like you need to plan in for a plumbing wall and run a vent

 

[johnjh2o]

Liquid is correct you must have at least one 3" vent.

John

 

[mxmom]

Thank you everyone for your replies! We have always thought it strange that there was never a regular soil/vent stack that ran up through to the roof!

We'd really like to make this legit and add one, but at somewhat of a loss on where it should be placed? We have considered installing it in the closet wall (that will be between the tub/shower and washer/dryer) as we could design this to be a 6" wall vs. the standard 4" one.

Here is a link so you can see the floor plan that we are basing our design of our new bathroom:

http://www.homestyler.com/designprofile/f06aebd8-38fa-44f5-824e-1fd25e2a62d1

You were correct Flushmasta about there being a trap for the tub (but it didn't show in the picture)

What you see in this picture (under the main drain pipe) is the ceiling in the partially finished section of the basement (and that is a standard 8' ceiling in there) Believe it or not, the distance from the basement floor up to the floor joists is almost 11' tall, so it was hard for me to get good pictures. (I'm not too keen about being on a ladder myself) but it does give adequate space when having to do any work on the plumbing or wiring!

As the current plumbing will eventually be eliminated, we'll hopefully be installing all the new lines with the proper fittings this time!

We are hoping to be able to run the vent pipes for all the fixtures in the wall, up through to the attic to tie into a proper vent/soil stack, (would this be the correct method of venting?) Would really welcome any suggestions on where this 3"-4" (what would be the correct size anyway?) vent stack should/could be placed?

Thanks again!

 

[LiQuId]

Firstly I have to say that you need to eliminate the slip joint p trap on the tub, that will leak for sure. make the whole deal slovent cemented joints.

You would need a 3" vent coming off of the 3" main line, you would vent the bathroom group with a 2" wet vent up to the lav takeoff and then could reduce to 1.5" for the vent above the flood level rim. the vent for the bathroom group ( the wet vent ) must come off of the 3" branch for the toilet and be a 2" it could then accept the shower/tubs branch with a 1.5 or 2" WYE ( sani t's are the only T type that can be used in drainage and only in the vertical position )

.. you would need to increase the 3" vent to a 4" aby means of a roof increaser when you get to the roof.

I would suggest running in a closet, or a false wall ( plumbing wall )

really, you need a good plumber.

 

[mxmom]

Thanks again everyone! Sure am learning alot about the "do's and don'ts" in regards to this whole plumbing experience! Really appreciate all the feedback I've been given!

I'm really surprised to know that the slip joints shouldn't have been used (due to the possiblity of leaking). Guess we just figured it could be installed much like the drains you might find under a sink? Like I mentioned, we did this over 7 years ago and haven't had any problems with it. Guess we should consider ourselves lucky in that respect!

All of that old plumbing setup will eventually all be removed when the new plumbing is installed (hopefully within the next month) so will be keeping our fingers crossed that it doesn't start leaking before then.

Thank you too, Liquid, for your very descriptive response on what we need to do/use. I do have a couple of questions though, if you wouldn't mind answering?

1) Does it matter where the location of 3" vent line is placed on the drain line?
2) Does it need to go before or after the toilet drain?
3) What do you mean by "vent the bathroom group with a 2" wet vent up to the lav takeoff" What is a lav takeoff?
4) I know this may be alot to ask, but could you possibly draw some type of a diagram for me so I can fully understand the layout you are describing?

I really wish we could afford to have this done professionally, but unfortunately our funds are rapidly depleting (due to other unexpected financial needs).

Think I may also go to the public library and see if I can find any information on some of this (especially to maybe learn the different parts of the draining system--i.e, sanitary t's, wye's, elbows, etc.)

I truly do appreciate the help I've been given!

Best regards,
mxmom

 

[LiQuId]

I cant draw it out for you, Im paid for that and am doing a disservice to my trade to go that far. I've pretty much said how I would do it, but I will help so far as to say thatyou should aim a 3"line for the toilet, take a wye off ( 2" ) headed towards the bathroom sink ( the lav... short for lavatory ) and then take the drain for the tub off of that, There are many codes to be aware of when doing DWV and this is why we are paid and do schooling to become ticketed tradesmen. You do need some help designing a drainage system and it needs to be installed properly, this is not something of a handymans kinda job.

Good luck.

 

[mxmom]

Liquid, I sincerely apologize for my previous request about you drawing out the layout for this bathroom drain/vent. Guess I wasn't really thinking when I asked. I hope I haven't offended you by doing so?

Thank you so much for your explanation though, on how it should be done. I can certainly understand now the reason for having it professionally installed.

Will certainly be discussing this with my husband and see what we can do about having that done. Might have to hold off the completion of this remodel for awhile until we can save up enough to have it done correctly!

Thanks again, you've been a tremendous help!

 

[LiQuId]

no offense taken, I understand and appreciate your desire to learn and will gladly offer what help i can but there are many many codes to know and follow and the work MUST be done properly to ensure it does not cost the homeowner great expense later on due to bad practices or practices that should have been followed but were not simply due to a lack of knowing.

feel free to ask questions when you do the work, we are pretty helpfull around here.