My Life Has Been Shattered

[KULTULZ]

Installed a new WH in my daughters new home and went to cut the CPVC to transition new lines.

!!! POW !!!

Sounded like a mortar round hit...

The old CPVC shattered and hit the ground. Further attempts to cut it also caused shattering. Finally cut off with a hack saw and used a repair coupling to transition to new CPVC (can we say Mickey Mouse).

I have heard about this problem a few times before but didn't pay much attention.

I read on the net that this seems to be a common problem. I think I am going to have to re-pipe the house in PEX...

 

[frodo]

copper. be done with it

 

[phishfood]

CPVC has been known to do this from time to time.

 

[KULTULZ]

...hmmpf...

I wonder if was just a particular manufacturer like the CHI-COM drywall episode?

 

[phishfood]

No, it doesn't seem to be a manufacturer issue. Seen it with "top shelf" pipe too.

 

[Chris]

I'm glad California is mostly all copper.

 

[Zanne]

Yikes. Sorry this happened, but I didn't know CPVC did that. It's making me consider running PEX whenever the house gets redone.

 

[KULTULZ]

I had read from time to time about this problem but never took it seriously. I cut into a PVC vent once and this happened but was able to get around that one fairly easily.

Cooper is preferred but one would have to dismantle the house for a re-pipe. PEX has so many different systems and specialized tools, a big investment for Harry Homeowner.

Copper also worries me in that corrosive water will attack it...

 

[frodo]

you can repipe a house with out tearing into walls...hopefully the house is not a slab house

abandon the pipe in the walls.

drill thru the bottom of the sink cabinet install a straight stop instead of an angle stop.

same thing at terlet. drill thru floor.



only place you need to open a wall is behind the tub

 

[KULTULZ]

you can repipe a house with out tearing into walls...hopefully the house is not a slab house

abandon the pipe in the walls.

drill thru the bottom of the sink cabinet install a straight stop instead of an angle stop.

same thing at terlet. drill thru floor.

View attachment 11538

only place you need to open a wall is behind the tub

THANX Frodo!

The house has a finished basement. So I would have to tear the heck out of the ceiling drywall.

Plus, I am CDO and the finished job would have to be of NASCAR quality...

 

[KULTULZ]

Yikes. Sorry this happened, but I didn't know CPVC did that. It's making me consider running PEX whenever the house gets redone.

This episode has made me a believer...

PVC/CPVC was supposed to be the cat's meow, replacing CI/copper. Now that defects are beginning to show, will PEX do the same after years in service?

 

[KULTULZ]

HARRY HOME OWNER DUMB **** 101 (Personified)-

OK. The daughter bought a used house and hired a PROFESSIONAL HOME INSPECTOR. Guy missed (or wouldn't verify) several issues, one being HVAC plumbing. Has a heat pump w/ WH hydronic system for emergency heat. He blessed it and I didn't realize what I was looking at. He didn't bother to open the hot water heat ex-changer circuit to see if it was operable (it wasn't - heat ex-changer completely rusted through). Also advised WH (LPG) maybe had another year - it didn't). Minor water leak found, sourced it to bad heat ex-changer. Isolated it. Still a small puddle on basement floor. WH rusted out...

So here comes Mr. Do it your selfer... Plumber's estimate was completely off the charts.

Decide to go with 50 gal electric, propane prices are out of sight here. Emergency install, forgo usual install provisions as will do later. First rule, replace factory nylon drain valve. Wrong, will do later...

Concerned about tying in to brittle CPVC (hot water supply to house) so figure one of those CHI-COM Mickey Mouse repair couplings would tide me over until decide about re-pipe. It lasted two days before it popped. Tried another brand, it lasted two hours. Of course I couldn't drain the WH as the brass thread on my GENUINE AMERICAN garden hose brass coupling pulled the threads on the nylon drain valve (that I didn't replace when I should have) and I had to nurse it enough to finally put the brass drain valve in.

I installed one of those CHI-COM (do you think they are still upset over that Inchon episode?) SS flexible couplings and am now waiting for the brittle CPVC to fail.

If Frodo reads this, I am going to have to spend another Fri afternoon on his service truck looking for that damned LH monkey wrench...

 

[frodo]

This episode has made me a believer...

PVC/CPVC was supposed to be the cat's meow, replacing CI/copper. Now that defects are beginning to show, will PEX do the same after years in service?

http://www.classaction.org/pex-plumbing-lawsuit

http://plasticfailure.com/2014/01/20/pex-pipe-failure/

http://failures.wikispaces.com/PEX+Plumbing+Failures


their are numerous reports out in web land.

it is up to each individual to read and evaluate

 

[KULTULZ]

their are numerous reports out in web land.

it is up to each individual to read and evaluate

...recent failures and the lawsuits that have followed those failures lead to the idea that PEX plumbing systems aren't as good as once assumed.

PEX systems can fail in either the pipe or in the fitting. The most notable failure occurs when the fittings fail and water starts leaking and causing visible damage

THANX Frodo...

With it being as popular as it is (seems), one would think there are no problems.

Guess not...

 

[KULTULZ]

Copper (quality - not import) and monitoring water chemistry seems to be the way to go.

I had a home in MD built in 1967. It was a custom plumbing job or the builder just lucked out with a quality plumbing contractor.

Copper supply, copper gray waste and CI waste.

 

[Chris]

I am a firm believer in using copper. I also use type K for most everything. Frodo knows that.

 

[KULTULZ]

About Plastic Piping-

In many cities throughout the U.S. Polybutylene and CPVC plastic piping is approved for use in residential water systems for both hot and cold water supply lines. However, it is not clear as to the plastic pipe manufacturer’s position relative to the approved use of their pipe when there is always hot water in the hot water lines such as would be the case with a hot water re-circulation system. Evidently having hot water in the lines intermittently is acceptable (timer operated pump) but not constantly.

As a result Laing cannot offer any recommendations for or against the use of
plastic pipe until such time as the plastic pipe manufacturers themselves establish a clear position in this regard.

Check your local codes on the permissibility of plastic piping for your hot water re-circulation system.

Laing Hot Water Recirculating Systems-

http://www.hvacquick.com/catalog_files/Laing_Hot_Water_Recirculation_Manual.pdf

 

[phishfood]

The only large scale continuous re circulation system that I have ever been involved in was all copper, Type L. They have had multiple failures due to erosion of the copper piping. It seems to be related to excessive flow in the recirc system.

 

[frodo]

I wonder if it was because of some type of chemical in the water. i have worked on/added to 30/40 year old systems
what i usually find is the hot and circ lines closed up with white calicum. stuff is hard as aa rock, acts like a heat sinc
in order to solder, you have to chip it out

I have seen copper that had pin holes in it from resting on concrete.

 

[phishfood]

I don't know this for certain, but I think it was due to either the different zones of the system being set incorrectly, or the pump was oversized. Either one could cause flow velocities to be much higher than they should be.