Kinked Flexible Copper Gas Lines?

[wcniedba]

Just had some gas lines installed for my patio area. Some of the lines will run to fire columns (~20-30K BTU) and one larger one will run to a fire table (~200K BTU). Upon inspecting the job, I noticed that some of their flexible copper tubing runs from the valve box they installed appeared to be kinked when attempting to make 90 degree turns. Can someone tell me if these bends are problems? If so, can they cut and install elbow joints or does the entire line need to be rerun? Not familiar with flexible copper and whether it has to be a single uninterrupted run. Not sure the size of these lines (I could go measure but LINE #1 (fire table) in the pics is definitely much bigger than LINES #2 and #3 (fire columns). Thanks.

 

[voletl]

Yeah I would call whoever installed them and tell them they need to get their ass back on over and fix what they broke with brand new pipe.

 

[Matt30]

That section of pipe is toast. A disaster waiting to happen.

I have no experience in gas, so I cannot offer advice on how it should be repaired, but I do know that line should definitely not be in service.

Also, is there nothing protecting that line? It's bad news to just bury copper in the ground bare. It should be sleeved/insulated.

 

[SHR]

The installers did not use common, basic gas line installation tools and destroyed the copper tubing. It all must be completely replaced with new. No safe way to repair.

 

[wcniedba]

Can anyone confirm the comment above about copper line not being buried directly in the ground? I know nothing about gas lines but when I originally envisioned the job, I just figured they would run steel pipe with elbow joints and stub up to connects right above the ground that I could run flexible hose to each burner/fixture.

 

[KULTULZ]

Was a permit drawn and a final performed...

Was at the least the lead man permitted...

 

[wcniedba]

i didn't pull a permit. Should the plumbing company have? This was a firm listed on the gas company's website so I expected them to know what they were doing.

 

[frodo]

under upc code, copper tubing is allowed if it is type K,L,

but, if your gascontains more than an average 0.3grains hydrogen sulfide per 100 standard cubic ft of gs [0.7 milligrams per 100 leters]
it can not be used......consult gas co. for that info

it also, can not be soldered it must be either silver soldered [brazed] or flared mechanical joint

with no joints undrground.

it can not be repaired, those kinks , the whole line must be replaced, [ NO JOINTS UNDERGROUND]

those kinks are not legal as per the upc code under section 12 workmanship

installation, it can not be layed in a ditch with a bunch of rocks as your picture shows
it need a sand bed or in a sleeve
the rocks will rub the gas line and in 10 years will leak

9 years 10 months 27 days ,14 hours to be percise

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

I don't typically like to criticize other people's work but who ever did that is a jack leg... no sleeving protectant, no beding material, no pipe benders? How much did you pay for this, I would like to know if they charged you a standard rate. I hope they gave you a break with a discount for that substandard work. They should have pulled a permit. And they should have known to as well. As a plumber you are basically liable for 25 years for gas installations. No permit means no accountability. This person if working for a reputable company needs to be repromanded or fired. If working independently they need to be reported. Take plenty of pictures for record before they come back.

 

[wcniedba]

To previous poster... $2,250 was the amount charged. They ran a gas line from the meter to an outdoor grill area then continued the line along to these fire fixtures. Probably 10-15' from meter to grill, then continued on with that flexible yellow plastic pipe for another 20-25' to a valve box with 5 valves (4 fire columns and 1 fire table). Total footage in copper tubing maybe 80-100'?

 

[wcniedba]

Being that there are some tight 90 degree bends around these concrete slabs, and being that the pipe with be buried in exposed rock... can I go with cast iron pipe or steel and have that buried directly in the ground? And can iron or steel have joints underground?

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

Did they install the fixtures or just run copper and leave stub up for connection?

 

[wcniedba]

No fixtures. Just stub up for grill (this one wasn't copper), then valve box for fire elements, then 5 copper stub ups.
Here is another post I made that shows the grill stub up...
http://www.houzz.com/discussions/4212461#18495411

 

[frodo]

why dont you go with a pvc sleeve with pe pulled inside it.


if they had used a bender and a torch they could have done it

 

[wcniedba]

My main concern at this point is whether the original firm even knows what they are doing to fix this. They might just come out and "fix it" again. I guess I should call and try to speak with the owner. I also guess this is why I (or they) should have pulled a permit and had the job inspected

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

Black steel is something I would not use underground. They make a specialty coated black iron but it has to have the factory coating in order to use it underground. There are other products that are better to use underground when the diameter is the size you are running. I do not belive you can use black steel underground by code without a specialized coating. Frodo is the code guy. He has the book memorized forwards and backwards. I wouldn't be suprised if he could recite it on his head while eating a taco and not getting any on his shirt.

 

[KULTULZ]

i didn't pull a permit. Should the plumbing company have?

It depends on you locality. Here (WV) a permit is not needed but the installer has to be licensed.

This was a firm listed on the gas company's website so I expected them to know what they were doing.

I would notify the gas company with pictures and hopefully they will drop this installer.

Doesn't gas have to be at a minimum 18" under the ground?

 

[frodo]

My main concern at this point is whether the original firm even knows what they are doing to fix this. They might just come out and "fix it" again. I guess I should call and try to speak with the owner. I also guess this is why I (or they) should have pulled a permit and had the job inspected

ohhhhh.if you want to open a **** storm can of worms.

call the plumbing inspector, tell them a plumbing co installed a gas line
but you are not aware it has been inspected. would you please take a look see

he hehe..he will be juuuuust a taaaaad bit upset to find a gas line installed
in that condition and not inspected

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

That would be one those expressions that you would want to see in person.

 

[KULTULZ]

ohhhhh.if you want to open a **** storm can of worms.

call the plumbing inspector, tell them a plumbing co installed a gas line
but you are not aware it has been inspected. would you please take a look see

he hehe..he will be juuuuust a taaaaad bit upset to find a gas line installed
in that condition and not inspected

The continuing disregard for code has to be dealt with and stopped.

Water is one thing but gas is another. These people are going to get someone killed at some point...