Hot water issue

[achillez]

Hi plumbing experts,

I moved into a renovated house with some interesting plumbing issues. I'm unable to get "hot" water to the kitchen sink, or the bathtub upstairs. The water is just lukewarm at best. There is a small water pump (?) off the water heater that is plugged in. If I unplug it I'm also unable to get hot water to my shower upstairs. It doesn't help the hot water for the sink or tub. So my question is twofold:

1) Do tubs, or/and sinks have a way to control the amount of hot water that goes to them? Is it possible these just need to be configured?

2) Assuming no to (1), I assume then I have some sort of hot water delivery issue with my plumbing setup. What steps should I take to understand what the issue could be? Note: the house has a bunch of interesting issues so I wouldn't be too surprised if there is a fundamental issue here.

thanks!

 

[frodo]

I will help you but i need more info.

, are you able to take a picture of the water heater and the pump and piping ?

 

[achillez]

Thanks!. Here are some pics of the water heater setup. Let me know if you need any additional pictures. I can probably get behind the heater if you need pics of the other piping, or/and draw a picture of where the pipes are going (I figure I may need to do this ultimately to understand where the hot water is going.

I'm not sure if there is some way to control the hot water output at the tub/sink; I can take a couple pics there also if that helps.

 

[KULTULZ]

Here are some pics of the water heater setup. Let me know if you need any additional pictures. I can probably get behind the heater if you need pics of the other piping, or/and draw a picture of where the pipes are going (I figure I may need to do this ultimately to understand where the hot water is going.

I'm not sure if there is some way to control the hot water output at the tub/sink; I can take a couple pics there also if that helps.

If it is possible, could you get photo(s) of plumbing behind WH?

Very interesting plumbing runs going on here. How long has this been going on?

BTW- The TPRV drain and gas supply are not to code.

 

[frodo]

wth is a tprv ? damn word does not have any vowels in it. is it klingon ?



what does the pump tie into ? all i see is the pump no piping

which way is the arrow on the pump pointed ?

 

[frodo]

One problem, is your pump is installed incorrectly

http://s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/Taco%20-%20003-BC4%20-%20User%20Guide.pdf

with the motor installed wrong, it might be burned up.

i do not see a check valve. please verify a check valve is on the return line

 

[KULTULZ]

wth is a tprv ? damn word does not have any vowels in it. is it klingon ?

-ACRONYM FINDER-

Master Po,

Looks like I am getting close to snatching that rock finally...

 

[KULTULZ]

It could be cold water cross-over. Wonder if the hot water re-circulation loop (open or closed?) could be isolated to test?

 

[frodo]

-ACRONYM FINDER-

Master Po,

Looks like I am getting close to snatching that rock finally...

diddy bop up into a plumbing supply house and call it anything but a T&P
you will get this

Or this

but not this

ROTFLMAO

 

[achillez]

If it is possible, could you get photo(s) of plumbing behind WH?

Very interesting plumbing runs going on here. How long has this been going on?

BTW- The TPRV drain and gas supply are not to code.

Here's some additional pics behind the water heater. Also, pardon the ignorance but for the TPRV (temperature pressure release valve?), and gas supply why are they not to code? (note: I'm in Oregon not sure if it matters)

Two other points of note:

1) This setup has been in place since the previous owners renovated the house - ~10 yrs ago. I had my hot water heater replaced ~3 months ago because the old one started leaking. The plumbers charged $1500+ to install this new heater and hook up the plumbing. They added the strap to hold the piping since they said something about this needing to be in code. Maybe they incorrectly installed the TPRV / gas connection?

2) I observe in my master bathroom sink (near the tub) the cold water is sometimes warm and takes a while to get hot. Perhaps this is related to the hot / cold water crossing that someone mentioned earlier?

thanks!

 

[KULTULZ]

Here's some additional pics behind the water heater.

Also, pardon the ignorance but for the TPRV (temperature pressure release valve?), and gas supply why are they not to code? (note: I'm in Oregon not sure if it matters)

WHOA

You have no ignorance. You are here seeking knowledge. I should not have used such a college type term. T&P valve is correct for this discussion.

Please forgive me...

I will be back with further discussion.

 

[KULTULZ]

You have what appears to be a HOT WATER RE-CIRCULATION SYSTEM.

The return is plainly shown on the COLD WATER INLET. I cannot see the HOT WATER OUTLET supply for the system (maybe hold camera over OUTLET and shoot downwards).

Do you see under any sink cabinet a valve that appears as in the below photo?

 

[frodo]

the pump is upside down. There may be no thrust wear surfaces. (thrust bearing)

Also, the seals are flat surface seals, that is they don't seal around the shaft, but rather against a flat on the housing with a mild spring load. The installed height of the seal is critical because that's what determines the spring load; too short an installed height equals a high spring load and premature wear. Too tall an installed height equals too light a spring load and possible leaks.

If the armature is hanging from the spring load on the seal it could create premature wear.

also is not a check valve on the pump. this will cause the cold water to move into the hot line when the pump is not pumping

your circ line is connected to the hot line at the end of the run

NOT under the sink with your pump. what is controling the pump ? is your pump running 24/7 ?

AS i mentioned in the other post, check the pump, it may not be working

 

[KULTULZ]

Two other points of note:

1) This setup has been in place since the previous owners renovated the house - ~10 yrs ago. I had my hot water heater replaced ~3 months ago because the old one started leaking. The plumbers charged !!! $1500+ !!! to install this new heater and hook up the plumbing.

They added the strap to hold the piping since they said something about this needing to be in code. Maybe they incorrectly installed the TPRV / gas connection?

The T&P and gas supply were most likely that way before and they didn't see fit to bring them up to code.

2) I observe in my master bathroom sink (near the tub) the cold water is sometimes warm and takes a while to get hot. Perhaps this is related to the hot / cold water crossing that someone mentioned earlier?

frodo- The 2nd entry is why I was thinking there is a remote mixing valve w/ cold water return line.

 

[frodo]

a 3 pipe circ system has a pump and ties together after the last fixture

a 2 pipe system has a pump under the sink [typically] and ties together under the sink

you can also tell, by how the pump is controlled next to the watr heater
his is no control, no timer, plugged into the wall

the pump has no timer, just a pump.

i see nothin wrong with the gas or T&P, what are you looking at ?



i can not answer as to why he has cold water, till he answers my question if the pump is running or not
or if their is a ck valve on the pump line

i suspect the upside down pump is burnt uo and not moving water, and cold is back feeding threw the circ line form the cold due to 1 of 2 things

the line is not level and a swing ck has to be level to operate/or no ck at all

 

[KULTULZ]

i see nothin wrong with the gas or T&P, what are you looking at ?

I was wrong about the TPRV. From the turned photo, the discharge line looked as if trapped and transitioned into PVC.

The gas supply has no drip leg. It seems to me that if the gas supply introduced moisture and/or trash, it would gather in the low run section of the flex supply line.

i can not answer as to why he has cold water, till he answers my question if the pump is running or not
or if their is a ck valve on the pump line

i suspect the upside down pump is burnt uo and not moving water, and cold is back feeding threw the circ line form the cold due to 1 of 2 things

the line is not level and a swing ck has to be level to operate/or no ck at all

Capiche'