Help with old Kohler shower valve problem

[rtilghman]

Hi there! So, I've got an older Kohler three way in wall faucet system. Hoping someone here can provide me with some help/insight. The system in question is shown in the photo below (there's a hot water handle to the left not shown). I believe it's a Kohler Trend, but the long oval cover plates behind the hot/cold handles seem odd.



The issue is that the system is old and the diverter recently started acting up and isn't working/functioning properly. There aren't any leaks (that we know of) and it doesn't seem like there's any pipe damage, it just isn't diverting fully/at all. Since this is in a different city than where we reside we had a plumber come take a look. He said he needs to "open all the wall" to fix the diverter and quoted $4k as his cheapest price, which seem crazy (he basically wants to replace the entire valve pipe assembly).

As near as I can tell from Kohler's parts catalog and other online sources, the diverter in this system uses a removable/unscrewable diverter stem. Basically as with a valve you just pull the handle and then unscrew/remove the diverter.

My first question is if this is correct? Is there something I'm missing? Does anyone have experience with this type/model of Kohler handle? It was pretty popular, so I'd imagine lots of people have seen them.

My second question is whether the diverter for my system is Kholer part #20868-CP or #30467? I've found both parts listed in Kohler's catalog for what looks like my system. I'm leaning towards the 30467 given the cap similarities, but I really have no idea.



Thanks in advance for any help!

Best,
Rick

 

[Twowaxhack]

I have experience with that valve.

the oval plate is to cover the integral stop valves built into the valve for turning the water off.

To repair the center diverter stem it’s not necessary to turn the water off.

The faucet has two diverter stems because depending on when the faucet was manufactured Kohler had made two different parts that may fit. You’ll need to remove it and then see which one you have.

Kohler installs their stems with an impact wrench at the factory. This makes them more difficult to remove. Use a heavy wall deep socket with a pipe wrench to turn it.

 

[breplum]

You are correct that removal of the diverter stem assembly should be all that you need to repair, or even once removed evaluate for just a washer?
I don't know that valve set myself, but generally you might need a shower valve socket wrench set.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I ended up buying some 1/2” drive deep heavy wall sockets to remove Kohler stems. They really tight.

They “ pop “ and sound like it breaks when it breaks free it’s so tight. Copper cap gaskets.

 

[rtilghman]

Wow, great feedback and insights, thanks guys.

The plumber we had come by today (a self declared "expert", which is always a bad sign) said something about feeling a metal grind when he turned the handle and then started talking about a wholesale valve replacement (cutting into the wall). I was like, how the hell do you know the diverter can't be replaced by turning the outer handle? Of course the diverter's bad, but that doesn't mean you can't remove it. He didn't even take off the handle... he couldn't even LOOK at the diverter valve before he made his prognosis. Ugh, so frustrating.

Anyway, the insight is greatly appreciated. The diverter and valves haven't been removed since they were installed (I don't think), which means I'm looking at 20 years of oxidation/scale on top of this impact wrench tightness issue. Getting this thing out is going to be so much fun... I have a feeling I'm going to need a full can of PB blaster.

If anyone other tips or tricks for getting a stuck diverter/stem out without torquing the valve body I'm all ears. Thanks again.

-rick

 

[TomFOhio]

Sorry, It has to be unscrewed out in order to repair or replace. I take it you don't have an access
panel in the back of the faucet body. The only other thing you could do is open the diverter all the way and then replace
the tub spout with one that has the diverter on it.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Thick wall deep SaE 1/2” drive socket set and a 14” pipe wrench. It’ll come out. It will be damn tight if it’s never been removed.

 

[rtilghman]

Yeah, I don't understand the comment about needing access to a back panel... I can remove the stem and diverter covers and just use a socket wrench or valve remover thing to take them out.. they all unscrew from the front.

The only concern I have is age, oxidation, and tightness. Obviously we don't want to damage the valve body during removal, so I was looking for any tricks or tips folks have on making it go more smoothly (PB, CLR, something else, etc).

Thanks,
Rick

 

[TomFOhio]

If you had an access panel someone could hold the body while you crank on the stems and diverter.

 

[rtilghman]

Ah, good point. Yeah, I have two bathrooms back to back with a shared wet wall, so I've got zero rear access. Total replacement would also be easier with back access... if I had a panel (wall, closet, whatever) I would totally just cut in and replace the whole thing.

-rt