Four Way Valve?

[IAmBill]

I should start by stating that I know very little about plumbing so forgive me for using incorrect terms and any other kind of ignorance that I might present in my question. I did change the flexible water tube from my toilet once and I'm pretty proud of that.

I've been conceptualizing a fully automatic water changing solution for a salt water aquarium that isn't like anything I've found on the internet. It seems most aquarists have a loose idea of what automation really is and perhaps there's a good reason for that, but that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Anyway, my concept would ideally contain a single valve that controls the flow of water between two separate junctions. It would also be great if this valve could be controlled via a motor, but that's another problem for another day and not what I'm asking here. I don't really have much of a way to explain this so I attached a simple diagram of what I mean. The blue is the water flow and the red lines are the flow blockage created by the valve. I assume this could be done more easily with two valves, but a single valve would mean less moving parts which is always a good thing.

I don't know if this exists, if it's common, if it's practical, impractical, or impossible, so I figured I'd ask some professionals what they know. Also, my original idea was to have this valve turn via a motor receiving a signal from another source, but a mechanical alternative might be to have it turn automatically when a certain amount of pressure comes from the clean water supply pipe and then turn back when the pressure drops like a shop door might do. Let me know if that is possible if you have any input on that, as well.

Thanks.

 

[frodo]

https://www.acwholesalers.com/hvac/pdf/honeywell/honeywell-zone-valve/V8044-in.pdf

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Honeywell/V8044A1143-3-4in-NPT-3-Way-Zone-Valve-port-A-N-C-24V/32486.ac?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20Honeywell%20-%20JumpFly&utm_term=1100502933329&utm_content=Shopping%20-%20Honeywell

 

[IAmBill]

Two 3-way valves is an option, but it inevitably means two motors which effectively doubles the chance of the process failing at some point. In my diagram, if valve two opens and valve one doesn't, the tank floods. If valve one opens and two doesn't, the sump drains probably 60-70% and I potentially destroy pumps that rely on a certain water level. Certainly those issues are solvable with things like float switches and other safety measures that should probably already be there, but I'm still crossing my fingers that there's a single motor solution to this problem.

That said, thanks for the links and the advice. I'll definitely consider this product if it comes to it. Perhaps another option is to use two three-way valves and jury-rig some motor that turns both of them. I'm thinking some sort of motor in between that quarter turns a gear attached to a chain that rotates two more gears that I've replaced the replaced the valve handle with. Of course, just writing that makes it seem like more trouble than it's worth.

EDIT: Also, I should have noted that this entire construction would have to be PVC as this is being used for a salt-water aquarium and copper could eventually become a problem for invertebrates.

 

[Mr_David]

Most water softener system have a bypass valve that work just like what you described.

I found several option by searching for images on bypass valves.
Here is one. don't know how big you need it

http://andersonbrass.com/rv_four_way_whp.php

 

[frodo]

Two 3-way valves is an option, but it inevitably means two motors which effectively doubles the chance of the process failing at some point. In my diagram, if valve two opens and valve one doesn't, the tank floods. If valve one opens and two doesn't, the sump drains probably 60-70% and I potentially destroy pumps that rely on a certain water level. Certainly those issues are solvable with things like float switches and other safety measures that should probably already be there, but I'm still crossing my fingers that there's a single motor solution to this problem.

That said, thanks for the links and the advice. I'll definitely consider this product if it comes to it. Perhaps another option is to use two three-way valves and jury-rig some motor that turns both of them. I'm thinking some sort of motor in between that quarter turns a gear attached to a chain that rotates two more gears that I've replaced the replaced the valve handle with. Of course, just writing that makes it seem like more trouble than it's worth.

EDIT: Also, I should have noted that this entire construction would have to be PVC as this is being used for a salt-water aquarium and copper could eventually become a problem for invertebrates.

you can use a brass valve with pvc piping,

to keep any lead from leaching you simply pickle the valve in vinegar
it stops the leaching process... I am full of trivia


Here excerpts from an experimental paper relevant to the subject of corrosion in lead containing brass. Boldface emphasis added. The pickling procedure is slightly different from the well-known procedure recommended by John Palmer in How To Brew (slow pickle in dilute acetic acid rather than fast pickle in acetic/peroxide) but the idea is the same, to take the surface lead into solution as lead acetate. The tests were done over long periods in distilled water but brass corrosion could be expected to be many times quicker in acid and the presence of organic substances, conditions that might pertain in a fermenter or boiling vessel with brass fittings.



CORROSION / Volume 48 / Issue 12 / CORROSION ENGINEERING

Leachability of Lead from Selected Copper-Base Alloys
Corrosion 48, 1040 (1992); doi:10.5006/1.3315907 (7 pages)
J. I. Paige and B. S. Covino, Jr.

Abstract

The Bureau of Mines has conducted research on the selective leaching of lead from copper-base alloys in high-purity water. The alloys in this study were selected as representatives of those used in various plumbing system fixtures such as faucets and valves. Leaching tests were conducted for a total period of 14 days and at temperatures of 25, 50, and 75°C. An acetic acid pretreatment was used in an effort to reduce the amount of lead that was leached from the alloys. The results show that, with the exception of the more complex yellow brasses, more lead is leached into water from alloys containing greater concentrations of lead and that the rate of lead leaching decreases with exposure time. Higher temperatures had relatively little effect on the leaching of lead. Lead was preferentially dissolved from all of the alloy groups. Of the small total amount of alloy dissolved, more Pb, 10 to 59 times, was dissolved than would be predicted from the proportional quantity of Pb present in the alloy (0.1 to 7.0 wt% Pb). Typically, the amount of Pb dissolved in any given test period exceeded the Environmental Protection Agency proposed action limit of 0.015 mg∕L.

...

Effect of Pretreatment

A preliminary study was conducted on alloy C83600 to determine if the smeared Pb film could be successfully removed by a pretreatment procedure. Samples of alloy C83600 were leached in 1.2 N acetic acid for 4 h-, 8 h-, and 24-h periods. Then, the sample surfaces were examined using EDS on the SEM. The examination revealed that approximately 50% of the Pb was removed after 4 h, approximately 75% was removed after 8 h, and it was difficult to find any traces of Pb remaining after 24 h of treatment.
Based on these findings, the second series of tests was conducted in a manner identical to the first series with the exception that all alloys were preleached in 1.2 N acetic acid for 4 h and the only temperature tested was 25C. A comparison of the results for series no. 1 and no. 2 can be seen in Figure 3 and Table 3. This shows that the total amount of lead leached from most of the alloys did not decrease. In fact, the treated model alloys actually showed a substantial increase in the amount of Pb leached from the samples. However, an analysis of the percentage of lead leached during the first 24-h period shows that the pretreatment does have a positive effect. On average, one fourth of the total lead leached in 2 weeks, a reduction over non-pretreated samples, was leached out during the initial 24 h of the exposure period.

Image

[Here are the results graphically] for the semi-red brasses, alloys C83600 and C84400, which are reported to be the most heavily used alloys for production of plumbing fittings in the United States.

Image

 

[IAmBill]

Thanks, Mr David, those definitely seem like what I'm looking for.

Also, thanks for the info on the brass treating, Frodo. It definite looks like it does a good job removing most of the particulates but I'll have to do my research and see how sensitive the inverts are and how much time it would take for a dangerous amount to leach in and get caught in the silicone in the tank. If I can avoid the risk entirely, I'll try to do that, but it's good to know there's an alternative. Honestly, it's entirely likely that I'm being overly cautious as copper leach is normally a problem for people who use tap water in their aquariums where their water is running through several meters of copper pipe before it hits the aquarium. The water coming from the clean-water reservoir will be passed through an RO/DI system so it's really just the one fitting.

 

[IAmBill]

Hey, lookie what I found:
https://www.poolsupplies.com/product/eco-friendly-solar-panel-diverter-by-pass-valve


PVC construction, the correct diameter, and it basically looks almost exactly like what I mocked up. The only thing it's missing is a motor which I'm sure I could find a way to retrofit.

At this point it's between this and what David suggested, though I'd prefer this because of the larger diameter of the valve and the construction. Regardless, I never would have found this so quickly without all the advice and keywords I got from you guys.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[CT18]

Is this being connected to the home water supply and to the fish tank. Heads up for cross connection issues if so

 

[IAmBill]

No the clean water is coming from a reservoir where salt will be mixed in with the water. There will be no direct connection to my home water supply.

 

[Mr_David]

The valve you found will require 2 additional valves to make it do what you want.