Failed gluing I need advice

[Jimongee]

Ok so I am completing a pretty complicated DWV system in our dream home. I used 4" for the main 100' trunk line and 3" on all toilet arms and stacks and 2" on all else. I used all cell core schedule 40 PVC. I used blue all weather glue. I absolutely primed all joints (both pieces) and marked and fully seated all joints. Of course I twisted every joint I could as I seated them and held them seated for at least 30 seconds. On then large diameter it was near impossible to twist when seating. So some of those were pushed in fully and held. I absolutely applied ample glue to both pieces before seating. I also very securely hung all sections with plumbers steel tape every 48" on center. As I said this is a pretty complicated install with 5 bathrooms. And a couple other sinks and laundry. Today I glued on a cap at the 4" line that will go to the septic later. I installed a hose bib and a pressure gage and started filling the system thinking that I would fill until I saw it run out the roof. Wanted to confirm my work before inspection. It took 15 minutes to fill about 70%. At that point I found at least 6 leaks at various locations. Some were on 4" joints, a couple on 3" and a couple on 2". Needless to say I was frustrated, stressed, mad but mostly confused. This was not my first rodeo working with PVC so I have not a clue why the leaks. I was wondering if this was caused by the very huge and very heavy amount of water I filled the system with. I am stumped as to how gluing again will fix. And I should add that there are probably a hundred joints in this system so of course many did not l leak. Any help or advice on what happened would be great. Thank you for your time.

 

[frodo]

if the primer and glue were applied correctly, you should have no leaks.

i do wonder why you chose the cheap ass cell core pipe?

when you applied the glue were you frugal with it, or did you slop it on like someone else was paying for it ?

you need to slop it on, let it drip, make a mess. argh argh argh !!!!

I carry a rag, wipe the joints as i go,


did you turn each fitting a minimum of a 1/4 turn when fitting them together ?

gets the air out

did you hold the joint till it set up?

if not, they WILL back off


bottom line, their is no excuses for a pvc leak except improper glueing practice

 

[Jimongee]

Thanks Frodo. First I used cell core because I was told it was "as good". Maybe I was misinformed. Wish I had talked to you first. Thought I was saving money without sacrificing quality oops! Yes I did slop the glue on. I'm a pretty careful and detailed guy so that's why I'm so confus d about my leaking drain system. Anyway per my other note...is there any problem with filling this huge system with hundreds of pounds of water to a height of maybe 18'? Is there any way that water weight and volume could have breached some of my glue joints. And lastly when you have a 4" captured joint because of layout and confined space...how in the heck can you twist the fitting before it sets? Thanks I appreciate your comments.
Jim

 

[ExtraMilePlumbing]

Did you wait atleast 1 hour for the weld to dry .for pvc I always prefer sch 80 grey glue

 

[frodo]

i insert the fitting as i hold a level on it. inset and twist till it is set level.

sounds like from your comment. you did not twist your fittings, their by having air pockets

a 10 foot head of water is approx. 8 psi

18' is less than 16 psi. no problem if glued correctly

 

[phishfood]

Most of the blue glues are fast setting. Absent need for a fast set with moisture present, I don't like to use blue glue. Heavy duty gray is nice, but for the most part I have had good luck with primer and clear glue.

 

[Jimongee]

Thanks everybody I did wait actually 3 days! But when trying to twist the 4" when it's fully inserted was pretty much impossible due to the fact set of blue glue. Tomorrow I'm going to try to cut and fix but so much of this complicated network was elbowed and channeled between joists and multiple other joints that it seems like I'll have to dismantle a good amount of my past few days work...not to mention buying plenty more new fittings. I sure wish someone had a code approved method to fix a DWV system drip without tearing apart joints. Darn....

 

[tindave]

saw something at the plumbing supply by fernco today, didnt pay it much attention, but it was some type of new leak stopper

figure its gotta be decent by fernco

 

[frodo]

i only use blue glue on water lines

i use clear glue on dwv

 

[plumb_bob_square_pants]

Here is some thing contraversal. I have been wanting to ask the opinion here for some time and this is a good opportunity to ask. What about pulling a vacuum on the system then letting it pull the blue glue in at the point of leak. I have used this with success in the past with purple primer and heavy pvc glue. Would be great to know if this is acceptable or not. My boss has taken a very strong stance against it. What does experience say.... frodo?

 

[Mr_David]

I very important point no body seemed to mention.
I do this on all pressurized water systems but necessarily on DWV
All plastic DWV pipe is ABS here.

Do you bevel the pipe?
The sharp edge of the cut pipe can act like a squeegee and push the glue out of the socket when you put them together.
A beveled edge will help plow over the glue and keep it in the joint.

 

[frodo]

Here is some thing contraversal. I have been wanting to ask the opinion here for some time and this is a good opportunity to ask. What about pulling a vacuum on the system then letting it pull the blue glue in at the point of leak. I have used this with success in the past with purple primer and heavy pvc glue. Would be great to know if this is acceptable or not. My boss has taken a very strong stance against it. What does experience say.... frodo?

never heard of it, but a lot i have not heard of

i dont think it would work,

 

[speedbump]

Originally Posted by plumb_bob_square_pants View Post
Here is some thing controversial. I have been wanting to ask the opinion here for some time and this is a good opportunity to ask. What about pulling a vacuum on the system then letting it pull the blue glue in at the point of leak. I have used this with success in the past with purple primer and heavy pvc glue. Would be great to know if this is acceptable or not. My boss has taken a very strong stance against it. What does experience say.... frodo?

I have done it on swimming pool fittings and well pump fittings on the suction side of the pump and it has worked using clear glue. Suction leaks can be so small that water under pressure will not leak out. But they are large enough for air to be a problem with the pump catching a prime. So going around the joints with the pump running and pulling a vacuum can draw the glue into the air leak and seal it. This is not the approved method, but it is effective sometimes.