Dry Dirt in Sewer Line - New House

[chucksangel]

When I was washing clothes the commodes began to bubble and bathtubs backed up with water and garage got some water. My house is less than a year old. Did some research that suggested the problem was in the main sewer line. I have three sewer line cleanouts; two regular and one larger. The larger one was full of dry dirt. Here is a pic: Is this normal or does the dirt need to come out? I am a lady needing help! Thanks!

 

[Caduceus]

The dirt would definitely need to come out, but I can't be confident that those are the clean outs. Were there any covers and, if so, what did they look like? Are there any other pipes coming up from the ground in the yard? Maybe a few more photos from further back will help. From the looks of the pipes, the two smaller pipes are 3" and the larger is 6" and the 6" doesn't look like approved sewer pipe (schedule 40).
Also, If your house is under a year old, then maybe you should contact the builder or plumber who installed the sewer. Most states require builders to warranty against defects and craftsmanship for a 1 year minimum after construction. Unless you have been putting things down your sewer that don't belong there, this might be an indicator of a problem with the pipe.
Let us know some more details, too. I'm familiar with new construction policies in my area. Around here, the day you make the complaint is very important. If you wait one day past any warranties, the builder could be off the hook.
Remember that if you caused the clog, you may be charged by the builder/plumber for the service, but be sure to see exactly what is going on with the service and find out why the drain clogged.

 

[Caduceus]

Oh, and document every detail. EVERY detail...time dates, topics, everything. It could come in handy later.

 

[chucksangel]

They all had rubber caps with metal rings that tighten with screws. I pulled off the one closest to the house and toilet paper and other yuck came bubbling out. Next I removed the third cap (furthest from the house) and it was all clear. I opened the middle one and it was full of dirt (almost like it had been shoveled in) and it had PVC shavings on top. Does the dirt need to go? Does it serve a purpose?

 

[IFIXH20]

The middle one might be a backwater valve. If so, the flapper might be sticking.

 

[Caduceus]

Okay, now I see. If that piping arrangement has anything to do with your sewer, I am unfamiliar with it. We call those caps "jim-caps". They are not typically used for cleanout covers...especially on a new construction house. Those 1 1/2" pipes and the 4" pipe (now that I can put them in perspective) may serve another purpose that I am not familiar with.
What area of the country do you live in. Maybe one of our other members has seen this arrangement. Knowing they were capped off with jim caps is also good info for what they are.
Still, you may want to continue your search for another clean out and contact the builder. They should have an idea as to where everything is on the sewer or could put you in touch with the installer.
You're putting a great deal of responsibility on yourself. I understand if you are anxious because of the sewage back-up, but if your house is less than a year old, you should try to contact somebody through the builder. It may actually speed things up. I did warranty work on new homes for years and was able to solve the problems faster than the homeowners could.

 

[Caduceus]

The middle one might be a backwater valve. If so, the flapper might be sticking.

I thought maybe it could be that, too, IFIX. But something doesn't seem right about the two other pipes and the servicability of the back water valve. It would need to be dug up and still require proper installation so this doesn't happen again.
Not saying it is or isn't a backwater valve.

 

[camaroderrick73]

Infix is right... Definitely a backwater valve setup. Need to dig it up and clear the flapper in there.

There are tons out iin my area that are like this. I've always dug them up and put a rectangle christy box over it.

 

[camaroderrick73]

Just looked back at the picture... Those look like 3 in pipe with a 6 in pipe on the middle. Sewage is coming out the front one near the home and not the read one. Problem is the flapper.

 

[chucksangel]

Thanks guys! We found out it was a pipe to access the backflow valve however, the cap was buried under the dirt in the pipe and it had not been screwed on. Apparently, the dirt was falling in and stopped it up. Once the dirt was cleared, the cap was screwed on properly and the big pipe was place over it but no dirt was put inside (was the dirt supposed to be in there?). When the plumber first got here he snaked it through the vent on the roof and it came out through the ground which proves that the cap was not screwed on. Everything is flowing fine now.

 

[IFIXH20]

The dirt may have gotten in there during construction. I sure hope the plumber disassemble the backwater valve and inspected the flapper, the flapper hinges, the lid seal ,etc after running his cable.

 

[chucksangel]

OK, update! Toilets backed up again! The plumber used a pitcher to scoop and dump the waste water into the third pipe which was clean as a whistle before he started. Now it is backed up with muddy water and I put a ballon on the end of a hose and put it in there and it felt like it was touching gravel. I'm assuming he scooped water, dirt and rocks into the hole because I had gravel in that part of my landscape bed. The ballon burst. What should I do?

 

[chucksangel]

He said that the dirt and rocks should not affect the flow and now he wants to run a camera and see if we have a "belly". I will talk to the builder and see what they want to do. First thing they better do is recognize that this is a warranty issue.

 

[Caduceus]

I had a feeling that something wasn't right on that setup and more work would be needed. Dirt and rocks WILL affect the flow and cause further issues. Stay on them about the warranty and as I said before...document, document, document.

I'm also getting a feeling that the plumber is unfamiliar with how a backwater valve should be installed for good flow and to make it accessible for service.
Keep us updated.

 

[camaroderrick73]

I've been doing this for 15 years. Common sense states that if one side of the line Is Clear and the other side of the line is backed up, this the problem would be at the middle of those to clean outs. Rocks would have been a problem if they got into the back water valve causing the flapper not open properly.

I agree that this plumber didn't know anything about backwater Valves. You're going to continue to have a problem until that flapper is set properly inside the valve itself.

 

[Caduceus]

Okay, here's my observation. Now, I know that codes vary from region to region and still don't know what area we are dealing with, so please be gentle on criticisms. I'm only looking out for chucksangel's interests.

We can assume that the sewer is 4" PVC. The cleanouts are not an acceptable size. They should be 4" as well...minimum.
On that note, a cleanout before the backwater valve is unusual, typically it is only downstream of the BWV. No cleanout is needed before the BWV...running a cable into a BWV is a no-no. If a blockage occurs at the BWV, by accessing it you can determine the problem as well as what symptoms occur inside the house and resolve it with or without a cable once the flapper is removed.
If the BWV is more than 12" below grade and not in a vault, then it should have a service pipe attached to it so that the flapper can be retrieved and replaced.
The surrounding pipe, typically 6" pipe for a 4" BWV, must be attached to the body of the BWV so that no ground water, dirt/silt or gravel can enter and obstruct service of the valve.
The access at grade should not be jim-caps, but cleanout adapters with screw plugs. All connections solvent welded. This clearly indicates what the pipes are for and other services needed on the sewer. There is a trade-standard that has to apply to the installation of BWVs.
So if the "WTF is that arrangement" in my earlier post surprised anybody, that is why. I even surprised myself because I forgot who I've worked for in the past. At my previous company, the owners were the worst offenders. They have been sued by home owners and fined by the Health Dept. because of their trade practices and rely on a talent for bull-scat to get out of any situations that they can that will cost them money. Fast and cheap is the name of the game for new construction homes and documentation is the only protection for home buyers.
Find out if any local authority has jurisdiction over the plumbing installations in your area. Don't call yet, just find out who they are. If a sewer camera is used, ask for a copy of the inspection on tape or CD. If they say that they don't have that technology, push for it and don't be shy. If one belly exists, there could be a lot more. You don't want to be on this forum another year from now asking how to replace a your entire sewer to save a few thousand dollars.

 

[chucksangel]

Thanks again. We are in Oklahoma Andy this is our first house here. I wonder why that third pipe is now backed up too. It's making me sick and I need to do a giant pile of laundry and of course there is the hygiene issue. I hve not heard from anyone yet this morning but hopefully the plumber that installed this can come out. I hope they don't try to blame this on the plumber that I had out here this weekend. The builder and anyone at his office is unavailable during the weekends so I had to take other measures.

 

[camaroderrick73]

Ok let start from the beginning. The only reason to have a bwv is because the street it higher than your house. So if the city sewer backs up, it doesn't damage anything in your house. That's why it has been code for such a long time to install these.

That said, if it was a 4 in line those 3 inch clean out are acceptable. If it was a 2 in clean out riser then it would be a problem. Now I'd much rather them be 4 in ...but 3 will do. Most likely if its a new house it's not 4 in sewer anyway because new construction rarely put 4 in in any longer. I have seen defective bwv. Not very common but it does happen. The piece where the flapper rests in doesn't sit properly causing the bwv to be no good.

The thing I do not understand, and I am hoping someone can elaborate, is why is he running a camera towards the street if the line is clear? I am still under the Assumption that the clean out near the house is backing up and the clean out after the bwv is clear. Am I wrong?

 

[camaroderrick73]

Chucksangel,

That makes more sense. Now whatever cleared from the pipes before the bwv is now moved towards the city line. If both clean outs Re backed up then it towards the city line. You should have another clean out near the street somewhere. Open that one . That is the city's clean out. If that's backed up that I'd the response ability of the city. If not you have a isse on your side and that's a builder situation.

 

[chucksangel]

Thanks! The builder sent out the original plumber and he snaked between the house and city sewer. The sewer drain runs trough my back yard instead of the street but a big access manhole is my backyard. It's ugly but also helpful. The obstruction was indeed moved from one spot to the other but I know I saw the first plumber pour some rocks into pipe number three but I don't know if it was enough to cause instant blockage. Anyway plumber number two ( original plumber that installed) did the trick once again, we have drainage. Thanks again!