copper tail

[pawel]

Hi!

I was putting in some new pipes to run clean water from the water filter to the faucets. As I had to remove some old pipes, there was one place where iron met copper, and as I was unscrewing the iron pipe, the 90 that connected it to the copper turned far enough and broke off the copper fitting that was there. So I replaced all the copper pipes on that side of the wall with PVC, but there is still a copper pipe that runs into the wall, and I don't feel like tearing the walls down to have that replaced. However, the piece that sticks out is really a small tail, the rest are back-to-back soldered joints before the pipe disappears into the wall.

To connect the new PVC pipes to that copper, I put together a compression to IP 90. Now, that was a total failure. First, I used the nut that came with the fitting. That just was leaking profusely. After unsuccessful attempt to cap it (I had a post about that earlier today), I used separate nut and ferrule. I hand tightened it, wrenched it in a little more, and turned the pressure on. That left me with water just spewing out of the joint. I started tightening it until the leaked stopped. And it did stop, but the amount of torque I had to apply to that fitting is far beyond the standard 1/4 turn with a wrench rule (it's probably at least 2 full turns, didn't really count).

My questions is - do I need to think about replacing this with a better connection anytime soon? Should I rather solder, or bite it, and tear town the walls and replace the pipe all together? Here are the pictures of the joint, you can see the amount of exposed pipe, it's condition, and how much do I have to work with here...

Thanks!
Pawel.

 

[johnjh2o]

First off PVC is not allowed inside the house. And for good reasons. I see you have a male x compression ell screwed into a slip X female tee. That will be your first point of failure. In time that tee will split. At this point I would advise you to get a qualified plumber to make the proper repairs before you get into more trouble.

John

 

[Another-Plumber]

You are asking for trouble?, do you want to flood out your home? Put the glue down and call a plumber..

 

[pawel]

Guys,

thanks for the chewing me out part, I do appreciate that.

However, it would be more constructive to know what exactly am I doing wrong here.

So far, I got that:

a) No PVC inside, I have to replace it with one of : copper, PEX, CPVC
b) Don't thread male metal fittings into PVC female fittings.

I assume that's due to the material density. Is it OK to do this the other way around - male PVC with female metal? Is this a bad idea with PVC only, or both CPVC and PVC?

Thanks,
Pawel.

 

[phishfood]

I don't think that our resident plumbers are intending to be nasty to you. It is just that we all saw serious red flags, and don't want you to experience major problems. When we see small problems, we don't hesitate to offer guidance. But when we see multiple large issues, we tend to err on the side of caution and recommend that you seek professional assistance.

a) Exactly, no PVC inside of a building
b) Threading into female plastic fittings is asking for a split plastic fitting and a leak. The tapered thread of the male fitting spreads and stretches the plastic female fitting.

I am not a big fan of plastic male adaptors either, as vibration or sideways flexing tends to break the adaptor off at the threads. CPVC male and female adaptors are available in a slip CPVC x brass or stainless thread. PEX threaded adaptors should be OK, as the natural flexibility of the PEX negates any problem there. Copper male and female adaptors are not a problem.

 

[pawel]

Thank you so much, phishfood.

I'll get rid of all the PVC assembly, probably replace it with the CPVC, I really don't want to mess with the heat. I'll stay away from threads on [c]PVC all together. Probably will run a PEX line under the house (I haven't even started on that part yet).

As to my original question - how do I best connect to that little tail of copper pipe I have left - I figure the best solution here is to solder it after all. The fact that the compression doesn't hold it that well probably means that the pipe is too thin. But please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Pawel.

P.S. I didn't and don't think that the guys were being nasty, to me or at all. I basically understand that I am way over my head here, but that's the only way I would learn...

 

[Another-Plumber]

for you, Sharkbites from copper to cpvc...
correct way would be all copper

 

[pawel]

Thanks for your help guys.

I replaced all the pipes with copper, and just used a rapid fire on that tail.

And regarding the PVC... I found some references that say that PVC glue is prone to failure due to temperature fluctuations, and that's the primary reason for not using PVC. But the whatever plumbing book I have says PVC is allowed as supply line for cold water only, and I swear I saw a picture of somebody with PVC line inside walls... I understand that copper is definitely safer, and I did change to copper, but was just generally wondering...

Thanks,
Pawel.

 

[barnabas1969]

The "supply line" you mention is the line from your water meter to the house. Not inside the house.