Community boiler not heating everyone's water.

[awfunny]

Hello,

I have a rental unit in a condominium complex of 182 units. None of these units have gas plumbed to them. Everything in this complex, as I understand it, is electric. The water throughout the complex, including the pool and spa, are heated by a single boiler at the front of the complex. Several years ago, I know the boiler was replaced. As I understand it, it sounds like the new boiler that was installed, was too small for the size of the complex. As a result, many of the homeowners in this complex are complaining that they have no hot water - including my tenants. The homeowners association doesn't seem to be doing anything to resolve the problem. What I'd like to know is... Is there a way to heat the water in my unit by installing some sort of water heating system so my tenants can have hot water without having to depend on the community boiler that is obviously not doing the job? Is it possible to install a tankless water heater in the unit, and would this resolve the problem?

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Allen

 

[phishfood]

There are a variety of options.

If you have the space available, you could install a tank type electric water heater. If there is no convenient location for a tank type, perhaps an instantaneous electric water heater might be a better choice. This heats water only when hot water is being used, so tends to be more efficient and doesn't take up nearly as much space. The wire and circuit breaker necessary to run an instantaneous water heater is quite large compared to that needed to run a tank type electric water heater.

Another issue that very well might come into play is accessing the hot and cold water lines to pipe a water heater in.

 

[awfunny]

A big thank you for telling me some of the options I have. Me and my wife went to the complex on Saturday and had a long talk with the president of the homeowners association. It seems that over the last three years they've spent $20,000 in boiler repairs and within the next two weeks or so, new boilers are going to be installed at a cost of $30,000. In my original post, I said that there was a single boiler for the whole complex. I stand corrected. I was informed there are currently four small boilers that will be replaced by two larger boilers. From what I'm told, these new boilers will have a capacity large enough to supply hot water to 300 people more than our current boilers. Hopefully, this will solve the problem. However, the boiler company inisists that the new boilers will not solve the existing hot water issue. They're saying that the problem is within the plumbing in each unit - specifically the mixing valves in the washer/dryer combos, and the showers. At this, the boiler company has asked the homeowners association to sign a waiver because they've advised us that the new boilers will not solve the hot water issue. Do you think that the mixing valves could be the problem?

As far as the options you mentioned... I don't believe there's any place to put a water tank within the unit as space is very limited. Only place could be the attic, but I doubt the city would ever allow it up there.

The instantaneous electric hot water heater you mentioned... is that a tankless system? Also, just to make sure, am I to understand that it would not require a gas line hooked up to it?

Again... A BIG THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR TIME AND HELP IN THIS!

Allen

 

[phishfood]

As to the problem being inside the individual units. It is possible possible for a defective cartridge in a shower valve, or for that matter a single handle faucet, to allow cold water to cross over to the hot side of the water system when there is demand on the hot side. I have never heard of water crossing over inside a washing machine, though it MIGHT be possible. The worst part of this is that the problem could be in someone else's unit, but affect your unit. I would say that it might be a wise choice to have a competent service plumber come in and check out several units to get a better idea if there are potential crossover problems.

The last time I read the code on water heater location in my area, it was allowable to put them in an attic, as long as you provide a drain pan. If this is a community attic, and a leak could damage other's property, I wouldn't consider it anyway. If you do decide to install a tank type water heater in the attic, INSIST on a metal pan. These safe pans won't handle the volume in the event of a major leak, but will handle most minor leaks.

Yes, the instantaneous water heaters are tankless. And yes, you can get them in an electric version that does not require a gas feed. I can't personally guarantee that such a unit would be satisfactory, as I have personally only installed the smaller models intended for a single bathroom.

 

[awfunny]

Yeah, it surprised me when I was told that the washing machine had a mixing valve that could be causing the problem. Apparently a few people in the complex had problems with the hot water within the last couple years and were told that it was their mixing valves in the washer and shower. When they changed them out, the problem was solved. Hard to believe that could be the cause of the problem. But it worked. From what I understand, the board has had a plumber come out in the past to check some of the units. Everyone keeps saying its the mixing valves. Since the new boilers are supposed to be installed within the next week or so, I'm going to wait and see what happens. If the new boilers don't solve the problem, I'll have to look into it further and possibly change the mixing valves.

Are you saying that the electric tankless heaters are more for just a single bathroom, rather than the whole apartment? Or do they have these heaters for the whole apartment as well? It's not a big place. The whole condo is only 624 sq. feet.

Thanks again! I really appreciate all your help!

Allen

 

[phishfood]

There are electric models available that are intended to service an entire dwelling unit. I have not heard a lot of feedback on these, as the gas fired models seem to be used the majority of the time.

 

[awfunny]

OK. I'll see what happens after they install the boilers, and then take it from there. Thanks again!

 

[awfunny]

It's been a month or two since the new boilers were installed. Right after they were installed, my tenants said that their water was now hotter than they've ever had it before the new boilers. We were all thrilled that for the first time, it appeared the hot water problems might have been solved. Gradually, however, my tenants started to tell me that the once real hot water wasn't so hot anymore. Seems it kept getting cooler and cooler. The other night they called and told me they didn't have any hot water and that the shower was colder than it had ever been, even before the new boilers were installed. Not sure why the water got real hot after the new boilers were installed, but now, it's cold again. Got any ideas? Does it still sound like it could be the mixing valves?

Allen

 

[Caduceus]

If the water started coming out hot then gradually changed to colder than before, I would start with the new boilers to be sure they are continuing to fire properly. The human factor should always be investigated to check for a mistake on the install.
Somebody needs to get a plumber in there to do a thorough inspection of the plumbing and try to determine if there is truly a cross of the hot & cold. There are many ways to do it depending on the plumbing design. One way to see if there is a cross somewhere is to shut off the supply valves from the boiler so that there is only cold water to the building. If a 'hot only' valve is opened and provides cold water at full pressure then you know there is a cross.
If testing with a single handled faucet, turn off the cold isolation valve and open the hot side and if full pressure cold water comes thru, again positive for the cross.
Only problem would be determining where it is in the building. At least it would eliminate or confirm the cross as an issue.