Can we settle a flange debate? Please!

[Dogstar]

Ok here goes. I tiled a small bathroom and am now ready to install a new flange abs on 3 inch waste pipe.
I have heard two conflicting views and I am not sure what to do.
Option 1: mount the the flange on top of the finished tile and secure through the tile. When I dry tested this way the toilet rocked. The floor is a little uneven. Old house.
Option 2: install the flange so the top of the flange is flush with top of the tile.
Both sides present compelling arguments.
Thanks in advance from Canada

 

[johnjh2o]

Install the flange on top of the floor and fasten it down. If the floor is uneven then shim the toilet. For best results use a flange with a stainless steel ring.

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/toiletflanges.html

John

 

[LiQuId]

I use wobble wedges to shim, they are availablle at most stores, are stackablle ( if needed ) and are made from rubber so they are easy to cut with a chisel pressed into them at the toilet base when done, fill around the toilet with silicone after to hide any gaps, jsut leave a little bit of the back side open so that you can detect if a wax ring needs changing.

I also agre with john, top of the floor flang mount.

 

[Joeypipes23]

Ok here goes. I tiled a small bathroom and am now ready to install a new flange abs on 3 inch waste pipe.
I have heard two conflicting views and I am not sure what to do.
Option 1: mount the the flange on top of the finished tile and secure through the tile. When I dry tested this way the toilet rocked. The floor is a little uneven. Old house.
Option 2: install the flange so the top of the flange is flush with top of the tile.
Both sides present compelling arguments.
Thanks in advance from Canada

Set the bowl in plaster will never move and looks professional

 

[LiQuId]

yeah except that when the wax seal needs replacing you will have a hell of a time removing the bowl, and that when it does leak you wont know untill its been doing so for a while..

Sorry but I just encountered one of these last week and it was a real pain in the ass for what should ahve been a simple job.

:s

 

[Matt30]

When possible, always mount the flange on the finished floor.

 

[Joeypipes23]

Its been done that way for yrs...its the way I was taught by an old school guy

 

[johnjh2o]

Its been done that way for yrs...its the way I was taught by an old school guy

I am a old school guy. And the way it was done is with a mixture of putty and plaster. It was given up for a better way of setting toilets with wax. Just because it was THE OLD WAY doesn't make it better. We also use to use galvanized pipe and we all know what happens with that.

John

 

[Joeypipes23]

I am a old school guy. And the way it was done is with a mixture of putty and plaster. It was given up for a better way of setting toilets with wax. Just because it was THE OLD WAY doesn't make it better. We also use to use galvanized pipe and we all know what happens with that.

John

Your really arguing that plasters not the way to set a bowl...to each their own...I've set many bowls...if your flange is the right height and you set it correctly...clean the smushed out plaster....you have a professional look and a bowl that will not rock...I've seen so many silicone jobs that turn color and look like crap...like I said to each their own

 

[johnjh2o]

Like liquid said they don't come up to easy when using plaster. The toilets that were set in plaster had four bolt holes. And in many cases the toilet was just screwed to the floor and they didn't use flanges. They just folded the lead over onto the floor and set the toilet on it.
If it's a vinyl floor the chances are very good that it will come up with the toilet if it's set in plaster. In this or any other business you have to except change. If we didn't we would still be using cast iron with lead & oakum. If you don't change you will fall behind your competitors and won't last long in business.

John

 

[Chris]

What do you guys think about a toilet set in grout? I used to be a tile guy and we would set the toilet in grout except for a couple inch patch in the back. I have pulled a few later on and the grout does not bond to well to the toilet so cleanup is not horrible. Just wondering what you guys thought of it? I like how firm the toilet is when done.

 

[johnjh2o]

Chris I have used grout in place of calking around the base of the toilet and it works very well. I believe that is what your referring to and not using grout in place of the wax seal. You are also correct in not putting any around the back side of the toilet so if the wax should leak the water could be seen before it caused further damage.

John

 

[Chris]

Exactly what I was talking about. I don't see it done often but I really like the results and it matches the floor which just makes it look better.

 

[johnjh2o]

Chris, that's the problem with us doing it with grout. When we get there to set the toilet the tile is already grouted and we don't have any to match whats there. In a perfect world the tiler would leave some grout so we could grout the toilet in with a matching color.

John

 

[Joeypipes23]

Like liquid said they don't come up to easy when using plaster. The toilets that were set in plaster had four bolt holes. And in many cases the toilet was just screwed to the floor and they didn't use flanges. They just folded the lead over onto the floor and set the toilet on it.
If it's a vinyl floor the chances are very good that it will come up with the toilet if it's set in plaster. In this or any other business you have to except change. If we didn't we would still be using cast iron with lead & oakum. If you don't change you will fall behind your competitors and won't last long in business.

John

I clearly disagree..I've yet to have a problem lifting a bowl set in plaster and I don't know where plumbing is done that there's no flange and johnibolts...all you have to do is wiggle the.bowl side to side and up she goes..its not a matter of changing....its doing the right job and if your telling me silicone around the base of a toilet is right....then that's your business

 

[johnjh2o]

All I'm trying to do is point out what I have learned in my 50 years in the trade. There isn't much that I haven't seen. You can agree or disagrees that's your choice.

Have A Good Day

John

 

[LiQuId]

Im with john, I've yet to read a post hes made that wasnt awesome advice and I think many people would benafit from his experience.

to each their own though, of course.

 

[Joeypipes23]

Im with john, I've yet to read a post hes made that wasnt awesome advice and I think many people would benafit from his experience.

to each their own though, of course.

Meh...........

 

[phishfood]

I prefer to set with a wax ring, on shims if neccesary, and then grout. The was seals, the shims keep the toilet from rocking, and the grout holds the shims in place and makes a nice neat finish.