Broken toilet flange

[thelovelydove]

My husband and I had to remove the toilet in the basement bathroom to get to the wall behind it. What did we discover in that process? The toilet doesn't have a flange. More precisely, it looks like the flange was broken off in the toilet pipe. The people who flipped our house clearly decided not to deal with it, tiled around it, then simply attached the toilet with a wax seal and some caulk. See the pictures below.

What do we do now!? We don't want to slip a smaller flange into the existing one, because we think it would be too small and cause toilet backups. We thought we might be able to cut the existing flange out with a Dremel, but we are terrified of cutting too far into the pipe. Then, there's the unevenness of the tile around the pipe. In order to seat the flange properly, do we need to cut away some of that tile, and if so, how? In the meantime, we are starting to get hammering in our pipes throughout the whole house. (If it's not one thing, it's another.) We are pretty sure air is getting into the pipes from that uncovered toilet pipe (you can feel a negative pressure pulling air into the pipe).

We are inexperienced, but eager DIYers, but plumbing and electricity are the two areas where we are terrified of the consequences of getting it wrong. Is this something we could reasonably tackle ourselves (carefully cut out the broken flange with a Dremel)? Should we consult a professional handyman? Or do we need a plumber?

Also, can this wait a week until after Thanksgiving, or is there a real risk of sewer gas coming up into the house through the open drain pipe? Is the house-wide hammering going to get worse until we resolve the toilet and get all pipes reconnected?

Thanks in advance, and let's keep things in perspective and be thankful for what truly matters as we head into Thanksgiving!

 

[thelovelydove]

We've got a handyman coming tomorrow.

 

[phishfood]

Most handymen aren't going to have the skill to complete that repair properly.

 

[thelovelydove]

Hi phishfood,

What do you think will happen? Will it "split open and melt"? Just kidding...Sooooo, you suggest a plumber?

 

[thelovelydove]

Ok folks. The handyman was able to remove the broken flange. Turns out it was just a matter of cutting it out with the Dremel. The new flange is in place, and the toilet is installed. However, after purging the plumbing for air again, twice (turning off main water line, opening all faucets, tubs, etc., turning on main water line), the hammering is still there. Will it work itself out over a day or two, or are we looking at a new problem? Thanks!

 

[phishfood]

What most people call water hammer is usually caused by one or more of the following problems. Excessive water pressure, piping that is not properly secured, a quick closing valve or faucet that does not have a hammer arrestor installed, or a bad hammer arrestor.

Can you identify a certain thing or action that is causing the hammering to occur?

 

[thelovelydove]

Thanks for the help, phishfood. The "hammering" occurs when flushing any toilet, running any shower/bath, running the washing machine, and running any two faucets (but not one faucet). It happens with hot or cold water. We can see the main water line shaking in the utility closet, and we hear a dreadful racket in the walls.

Some other things that have happened recently...We discovered mold in an inner wall in the basement (caused by a tiny bead of water running from the toilet tank down the line into the wall, probably going on for years before we bought the house). The wall is shared by a bathroom and laundry room. The toilet and sink were removed in the bathroom, and the washer and drier were disconnected in the laundry room. Drywall was ripped out, studs sanded, the whole mold removal magic, drywall installed. Washer and drier were reconnected. The toilet and vanity, however, took us a while to get to, so all that was unconnected for a while.

We cannot say precisely when we started noticing the hammering, but it was around the same time all that work was going on. I always tend to think the most likely explanation is the right one, which has me looking at all these factors.

Hypotheses:
1) We've hooked up something incorrectly.
2) Air got into the plumbing system while things were disconnected, and it's trapped somewhere (up to four attempts at purging).
3) The pipes got disrupted, unsecured, what-have-you during the tear down and rebuild (tear down and drywall rebuild, including bump out to accomodate pipes were done by the mold remediation company)
4) We nailed into a pipe when installing baseboards (I feel like we would be seeing a host of other problems if this was the case...like water)
5) Or, it could be totally unrelated and, say, have something to do with an aging part (or whole) of the water heater. (The house is 30ish, water heater 3-5ish years old.)

We welcome any suggestions if there is something that inexperienced but eager DIYers could try. Otherwise, I'm calling the plumber tomorrow to set up an appointment. I'm sure this won't get resolved before Thanksgiving, and we are dreading having guests for four days all having showers and flushing toilets...nightmares of pipes bursting in walls.

Cause here's what I know about plumbing, phishfood:
Well I'm convinced the whole day long
That all I learn is always wrong
And things are true that I forget
But no one taught that to me yet.

 

[johnjh2o]

If you have a pressure reducing valve it may have failed. That will cause the problem you are experiencing.

 

[thelovelydove]

Thanks, John. We do have a pressure reducing valve. Should that be the next thing we try? I'll do a bit of YouTubing to get a sense of what replacing the valve entails. Would you say it's something novice DIYers could tackle? Probably not the week of Thanksgiving, in case it goes horribly wrong! Would we be better off to call a plumber? Thanks!

 

[johnjh2o]

If the pressure reducing valve has a union and you can find the exact same valve then by all means DIY. If not then call a plumber.

 

[thelovelydove]

Thanks for the advice!

 

[thelovelydove]

Update: Adjusting the pressure valve did not seem to make a difference to the water hammering. We took a picture of the valve to Home Depot, and the plumbing guy there said they had the exact same valve, but ours looked new to him, so he didn't think it was the culprit. We finally called a plumber. We noticed that the water pressure did not seem to change when adjusting the valve, it always read 75 psi. We decided to have him change the valve (we don't know how to solder). Turns out there was a pebble in the valve. It probably just came in with the county water. The cost to replace the valve, parts and labor, was $270.

So, broken toilet flange resolved! Water hammering resolved! Fingers crossed that we have no more problems for a while!