Aerobic Septic Systems

[tommybo]

Hi all

I was just informed that I have to install a new septic system. My previous one was installed in 1959 and other than regular emptying of the tank, required very little maintenance.

The county is telling me it was failing due to a slight odor from the ditch discharge. Assuming I don't fight that, they also tell me new regulations does not allow for retrofit of my system. I must install an Aerobic system.

It will be a ditch drain.

My questions are:
1. What brand is the best to buy? I know they will give me choices of several but I want to go with a reliable system

2. Which brand has lowest maintenance fees? May be tied to question 1 but some systems are easier to maintain because of design.

3. Any other opinions on what to look out for in the decision or any other help?

 

[MD410]

It depends what is on the approved list for your area.
We install the Norweco Singulair because of:
1) costs
2) Ease of installation
3) Serviceability
4) Gravity discharge
5) Very reliable

The main thing I would look for is Gravity discharge.

 

[kappitts]

When looking at alternative treatment technology, there is nothing more important than the level of treatment. A high level of treatment ensures system longevity and less pollutants going into the ground water. I advise to steer away from gravity discharge, there is no easy or reliable way to monitor flows with a gravity system. Another highly important recommendation is to time dose the treatment unit, this ensures proper treatment of the sewage and gives plenty if room for proper and safe surge volume.

Singulairs are nice but their computers are unreliable. I have replaced several, i recommend that the alarm lights on top are siliconed or the control panel is located out of the rains reach.

I find the best treatment with Orenco's Advantex AX20. The RT is a nice unit as well.

 

[jwwing]

There is very little difference between them and an anaerobic tank. You still need a grease trap, you still need two tanks (or one tank with two compartments) and since it is gravity feed you don't need the holding (third) tank with the pump, but I would install it anyway and feed sodium hypochlorite (real disinfectant bleach, not the expensive stuff for clothes (I know, the stuff can be used for clothes also but ...)) into it with an automatic feeder.

You could use your current tank if it is in good shape still. You might have to build manholes down to each of the tanks if they are not already there. Purchase an air pump for about $400 and mount it in the first tank where the effluent enters from the house (through a grease trap - if you don't have one, you should install one anyway. If you do have one, it should be cleaned out.) The air pump bubbles air through the effluent and keeps the aerobic bacteria alive. The aerobic bacteria will be in the effluent already, they just don't live without the air in the effluent. Then the second tank works as it does now. Put an manhole on it if you like.

The output of the second tank is clean water and should be odorless, but alas it isn't always for various and sundry reasons, so a small third tank is used to collect and to chlorinate the 'clean' water. About 1 cup of ordinary disinfectant bleach a week should be supplied to the 10 to 250 gal third tank. Use 250 gal if you think that you might want to dump the water on the ground with sprinklers at some point either now or in the future. If you intend to use gravity, obviously the other tanks all have to be at or above the level of the output so that the output can run out of the third tank at the level of the output pipe.

I have a Jet system and it has all kinds of baffles that are supposed to help the aerobic bacteria do a better job. It uses an air pump that stirs the sediment at the bottom to keep things mixed. These pumps can be rebuilt and cost about $350 - they will last about 4 years so you will need one new pump between cleanings.

Although that third tank is supposed to be receiving clean water, apparently from time-to-time we over load the system and not so clean water gets into the clean water tank so that effluent is in there - that is bad. The chlorine is needed to keep it from becoming unsanitary.

The main thing is that an aerobic tank set can be the same as the anaerobic that you already have. All that is needed is an air pump to keep the bacteria alive and a third tank to hold chlorinated water for dumping.

Your county's rules, however, must be followed I suspect. So you might have to get their approval to do these mods. BTW the aerobic systems are the only way I would go. Some areas use an above grade leach field which I think is ridiculous. It is almost as bad as the old requirements for percolation - you make your drain field so that the moisture goes up and not down. You do not have to be above grade to do that successfully.

 

[MD410]

When looking at alternative treatment technology, there is nothing more important than the level of treatment. A high level of treatment ensures system longevity and less pollutants going into the ground water. I advise to steer away from gravity discharge, there is no easy or reliable way to monitor flows with a gravity system. Another highly important recommendation is to time dose the treatment unit, this ensures proper treatment of the sewage and gives plenty if room for proper and safe surge volume.

Singulairs are nice but their computers are unreliable. I have replaced several, i recommend that the alarm lights on top are siliconed or the control panel is located out of the rains reach.

I find the best treatment with Orenco's Advantex AX20. The RT is a nice unit as well.

While the Advantex does get slightly better reduction numbers it's not worth the extra cost.
The Advantex cost 145% more than the Norweco around here & the distributor SUCKS.
The Advantex also takes 5 hours more to install.
The control panels you have had problems with are the Service Pro 311's.
We use Service Pro TNT control panels with no problems & if we have a pump chamber we use a SJE-Rhombus control panel.
I like gravity discharge systems, because if the power goes out or you have system failure you can still flush the toilet.
Customers do not care about reduction numbers if they can't flush their toilet.

 

[MD410]

There is very little difference between them and an anaerobic tank. You still need a grease trap, you still need two tanks (or one tank with two compartments) and since it is gravity feed you don't need the holding (third) tank with the pump, but I would install it anyway and feed sodium hypochlorite (real disinfectant bleach, not the expensive stuff for clothes (I know, the stuff can be used for clothes also but ...)) into it with an automatic feeder.

You could use your current tank if it is in good shape still. You might have to build manholes down to each of the tanks if they are not already there. Purchase an air pump for about $400 and mount it in the first tank where the effluent enters from the house (through a grease trap - if you don't have one, you should install one anyway. If you do have one, it should be cleaned out.) The air pump bubbles air through the effluent and keeps the aerobic bacteria alive. The aerobic bacteria will be in the effluent already, they just don't live without the air in the effluent. Then the second tank works as it does now. Put an manhole on it if you like.

The output of the second tank is clean water and should be odorless, but alas it isn't always for various and sundry reasons, so a small third tank is used to collect and to chlorinate the 'clean' water. About 1 cup of ordinary disinfectant bleach a week should be supplied to the 10 to 250 gal third tank. Use 250 gal if you think that you might want to dump the water on the ground with sprinklers at some point either now or in the future. If you intend to use gravity, obviously the other tanks all have to be at or above the level of the output so that the output can run out of the third tank at the level of the output pipe.

I have a Jet system and it has all kinds of baffles that are supposed to help the aerobic bacteria do a better job. It uses an air pump that stirs the sediment at the bottom to keep things mixed. These pumps can be rebuilt and cost about $350 - they will last about 4 years so you will need one new pump between cleanings.

Although that third tank is supposed to be receiving clean water, apparently from time-to-time we over load the system and not so clean water gets into the clean water tank so that effluent is in there - that is bad. The chlorine is needed to keep it from becoming unsanitary.

The main thing is that an aerobic tank set can be the same as the anaerobic that you already have. All that is needed is an air pump to keep the bacteria alive and a third tank to hold chlorinated water for dumping.

Your county's rules, however, must be followed I suspect. So you might have to get their approval to do these mods. BTW the aerobic systems are the only way I would go. Some areas use an above grade leach field which I think is ridiculous. It is almost as bad as the old requirements for percolation - you make your drain field so that the moisture goes up and not down. You do not have to be above grade to do that successfully.

The JET is very similar in design to the Norweco.
They are both 3 chamber tanks & if you are putting bleach in the last chamber you are hurting your system by killing the microorganisms in the tank.
The 3rd chamber has an opening in bottom of the wall that separates the 2nd & 3rd chamber. When the aerator is running it sucks solids & effluent from the 3rd chamber into the 2nd.
Chlorination & de-chlorination should take place after or as the effluent leaves the last chamber.
I am surprised you are only getting 4 years out of a JET aerator & I know the guy who services them here & he says he has not had problems with the aerators.
The Norweco distributor says they are getting about 15 years out of their aerators.

 

[kylpitts]

While the Advantex does get slightly better reduction numbers it's not worth the extra cost.
The Advantex cost 145% more than the Norweco around here & the distributor SUCKS.
The Advantex also takes 5 hours more to install.
The control panels you have had problems with are the Service Pro 311's.
We use Service Pro TNT control panels with no problems & if we have a pump chamber we use a SJE-Rhombus control panel.
I like gravity discharge systems, because if the power goes out or you have system failure you can still flush the toilet.
Customers do not care about reduction numbers if they can't flush their toilet.

Our Orenco Distributors are really great here but then again I am in Oregon where Orenco is headquartered.
You are right about the Serve Pro 311's that is all I see.

The problem with gravity discharge and a power outage is that you are now introducing primary effluent to the drainfield that is probably not designed for primary effluent. Oregon actually requires that all ATT's have either a timed dosed ATT or a discharge pump so that primary effluent cannot enter the drainfield in the case of a power failure.

Customers don't take classes and do the field work necessary to understand the harm they can potentially do to their own drainfield, the ground water, and the rivers/streams around them. Even a lot of people in the septic industry do not know that effluent carries a heavy amount of harmful bacteria including chlamydia. Most people don't know the dangers of nitrates either.

Rhombus has some nice control panels, I have had the privilege of sitting through a few Rhombus presentations and they do good work. I see a lot more of Orenco's custom control panels and really do like their MVPs, Verricomm, and TeleComm control panels.

 

[jwwing]

The system that I have is a single tank with two separators. It is the older version of Jet 1500 (I think) The first tank is where the feed from the house comes in and has the air pump on it and the baffles. The second partition is next to the first and takes feed from it. This tank is the final working tank and the water coming out of it goes through a large pipe that has a built-in chlorinator for one inch tri-... tablets. It came that way. The chlorinator feeds into the pipe coming out of the second tank before it gets to the pump tank. I was later told that these special 1" tabs were necessary because the tri... tabs were really for pools. But that they would work - something about their chemistry. I had always used the non-tri 1" tabs for septic systems till I switched to hypochlorite. I had cleaned the chlorinator several times because it didn't seem to use any - the tabs turned to mush and the tank never smelled so I assumed it was ok.

In an anaerobic system and in the aerobic system, this water out of the second tank is supposed to be clean. In the anaerobic system that water might stink a little. That is why chlorination is added in the aerobic system. So the final tank in my setup is a holding tank that has a pump that dumps to the surface through sprinklers. This water is clean enough to drink (I ain't gonna) I am told. There should be no 'working' in it. It holds about 250 gal. That is where I dump a cup of hypochlorite every week.

Perhaps I cannot see that third tank that you are referring to. But I am pretty sure that there are only two according to the diagram I have. In fact what you described for two and three, I would call one tank. But if there is a third, (there just might be one that I cannot see) that is not where I am dumping the chlorine. It is in the pump tank which is not part of the others. My system has three covers: one with a hole for air, one over the center tank (or tanks) and one on the pump tank.

My system was new in 2006 - it has the kind of pump that stirs the effluent below it and adds air. It also was set up to turn on and off. I did not notice that it was not turning on and found that it had stuck (in 2011). The repair man said that it was alright once he cleaned it. He suggested that I leave it running all of the time and that I use the hypochlorite. He said to put in a half gallon to 'shock' the tank and then add a half cup every week after that. The chlorinator did not appear to work as it should and the water was smelly coming out the sprinklers so I knew something was wrong. The alarm never went off. So I did what he suggested and it has worked fine since.

I read the specs on the pump and it seems to me that it indicated replacement every 4 yrs. The self-contained air pumps are more expensive, not as heavily built, but easier to work on. Again much more expensive. Some do provide a method for stirring with a gadget that sits on the bottom of the tank.

My suggestion for the OP is based on a two-tank or two partition single tank anaerobic septic system. I think he could meet the county's requirements by adding the chlorinator and a third smaller tank at the end where the clean water goes out gravity fed. There is not that much difference between the two systems and it surely would be the cheapest method. He could do it himself for about $100 for a 60 gal tank, a $100 auto-feed chlorinator and a little elbow grease.

Edit: I think that the first tank that you refer to is the inlet tank that I cannot see. The tanks that I can see are the second and third. The fourth and separate tank is outside of the main unit and takes the final out flow. Could that be it? ( I missed that you said about the aerator pumping or pulling the effluent out of the first tank. That would only happen if the first tank is ahead of the tank where the aerator stirs. The incoming effluent would also force through the slot between the tanks and help control the digestion of the effluent as it rises when it decays.)

 

[Derrick]

Our Orenco Distributors are really great here but then again I am in Oregon where Orenco is headquartered.
You are right about the Serve Pro 311's that is all I see.

The problem with gravity discharge and a power outage is that you are now introducing primary effluent to the drainfield that is probably not designed for primary effluent. Oregon actually requires that all ATT's have either a timed dosed ATT or a discharge pump so that primary effluent cannot enter the drainfield in the case of a power failure.

Customers don't take classes and do the field work necessary to understand the harm they can potentially do to their own drainfield, the ground water, and the rivers/streams around them. Even a lot of people in the septic industry do not know that effluent carries a heavy amount of harmful bacteria including chlamydia. Most people don't know the dangers of nitrates either.

Rhombus has some nice control panels, I have had the privilege of sitting through a few Rhombus presentations and they do good work. I see a lot more of Orenco's custom control panels and really do like their MVPs, Verricomm, and TeleComm control panels.

I'm no expert but I was cruising on the internet looking for folks who are having similar issues with their Advantex system as I was. Our system $50K Orenco Advantex system was professionally installed Juy 2011. In October, 2013 It needed a $3K repair. Then in May, 2015, We replaced the pump, cleaned the filters and replaced the ventilation system. On 1/28/16 the pump was cleaned as well as filters and we were told if the pump hadn’t been cleaned it would have died shortly thereafter. Right now I have been getting whiffs from the tanks of unprocessed sewage and after multiple "adjustments" of the setting am wondering when this will ever end. If you are considering this system be aware that you may always be dealing with "sh*t" as you may end up with the same problems as we have. This is just my 2 cents from a homeowner, not a professional but the reason it's only 2 cents is that after spending all that money, the system seems to be only worth about that much.