Is replacing handle possible with artesian well shut-off valve?

[RickFlorida]

Hi everyone,

I have an artesian well that is for irrigation at my house. I'm in the process of moving the location of where the pump used to be. I need to shut off the flow to lay my new pipe direction.

While they used a solid bronze or solid brass large body for what I assume is a gate-valve that should have the worm like gears in it, the handle was made of cheap regular steel is is barely holding together. Is it possible for the handle and packing nut to be replaced while under pressure? How do professional well repair guys do it I'm wondering? Do they tap into the pipe behind the gate valve with a special tool or clamp to temporarily stop the flow or something?

The gate valve does open and close as I closed it due to an emergency about 6 months ago. I had to work the handle open and closed to eventually fully close it. It didn't leak or anything ever since being in the fully open position. But I'm afraid to touch it again with such a badly rusted handle. I'm open to hiring a well guy but I would like to know if it's even possible to repair or replace this shut off valve before I make the calls.

After the this first shut off valve, I have another plastic shut off but unfortunately, it turns right into the concrete under my driveway so I would have to rent a demolition saw and remove part of my driveway if I were to tap into the pvc after the newer plastic shut off. But I may very well go that route so I don't have to touch this old shut off with a bad handle.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[MicEd69]

Is it possible for the handle and packing nut to be replaced while under pressure?

Why do you want to replace the packing nut? The handle would be easily replaced while in service. You may have an issue with the retaining screw as those have been known to break or the heads strip. So, make sure the head of the screw is clean, that you use the correct sized screwdriver, you have full engagement into the screw, and be careful.

 

[RickFlorida]

Why do you want to replace the packing nut? The handle would be easily replaced while in service. You may have an issue with the retaining screw as those have been known to break or the heads strip. So, make sure the head of the screw is clean, that you use the correct sized screwdriver, you have full engagement into the screw, and be careful.

Because I'm an idiot and didnt' realize that there is an inital/separate nut/screw that retains the handle I now realize from what you said. The valve itself works and did not leak when I had to open and close it 6 months ago. The only other issue though is if the screw is too damaged like you said. So it sounds like I need a better inspection and decide.

Now I realize why the use cheap steel handles but with bronze or brass bodies. The handle can be replaced while the valve is in service. Got it. (But still annoying they would use cheap materials for the handle, why save 25 cents). I know bronze, stainless steel, or brass is expensive but labor from professional repairs is even more expensive. It makes more sense to avoid repairs and spend the extra money on materials as an easy way to avoid repairs. I'm getting sick of the corporate bean counters trying to fix stuff that should have lasted longer. LOL.

 

[MicEd69]

Manufacturers like it cheap to sell more. Installers like it cheap to sell more and don't mind returning to repair cheap things they have sold. Such is life.

 

[RickFlorida]

Manufacturers like it cheap to sell more. Installers like it cheap to sell more and don't mind returning to repair cheap things they have sold. Such is life.

What you said makes sense. It's not an issue in most cases to replace parts that fail. But in the case of a deep artesian well that is a shared artesian well with double the flow/pressure of a normal well........ It's critical that the first shut off valve be bulletproof. If I can't replace the handle because the screw for the handle is as cheap as the handle is..... then repairing or replacing this shut off valve sounds impossible to me as in only a well digging company can replace and they would maybe have to cap this well head and make a new one? So this is ridiculous that the handle is cheap.

 

[RS]

I think the reason the handle is failing is because it's buried in a dirty damp environment. In a clean dry environment it would probably last as long as the rest of the valve. If the handle fails you can always open and close the valve with a wrench or Channel-locks, just don't score the stem close to the packing nut.

 

[RickFlorida]

I think the reason the handle is failing is because it's buried in a dirty damp environment. In a clean dry environment it would probably last as long as the rest of the valve. If the handle fails you can always open and close the valve with a wrench or Channel-locks, just don't score the stem close to the packing nut.

Okay thanks. Yeah it was already buried long before I bought the house. It was completely buried and not in a valve box it all. I discovered it by accident when I nicked the pvc pipe with a heavy shovel and by the grace of God, the break was after the valve. so I had to close this valve to make the repair which was still a close call. I put the valve box around it to help mark it. I thought burying it again but with valve box over it would help protect it. I'm a block from the ocean in high humidity though. I can promise you that not even aluminum survives outside of my house in the air without getting holes in it. The stainless steel hardware that makes my gate latch system has surface rust so I think it would still fail outside in my case. (All of the potmetal handles for hoses and the steel handle for ball valves that are outside in the air rusted badly too in my case).

I have to use stainless steel tapcon instead of regular blue tapcons for anything outside.

 

[RickFlorida]

Why do you want to replace the packing nut? The handle would be easily replaced while in service. You may have an issue with the retaining screw as those have been known to break or the heads strip. So, make sure the head of the screw is clean, that you use the correct sized screwdriver, you have full engagement into the screw, and be careful.

Upon closer inspection, I don't know how to remove the handle. It appears so far that I only see a domed piece in the middle. Is it maybe an acorn nut on top instead of a screw as I was hoping? Should I slowly cut the handle off with a small cut off wheel and then hopefully I can find out what screw or nut attached the handle so I can change it?

 

[RickFlorida]

I think I know what gate valve it is. It's one of these. So the maybe that circle is the end of the bolt and there is a nut hidden in the steel rust. Perhaps I can dissolve the rusted steel away, get to the brass nut, and then replace handle. But look at this, it looks identical.

 

[RickFlorida]

I think the easy fix and what most people would do is that since the handle did let me shut it off months ago and I assume I can shut the valve off again, I think what I should do is just set up the new pvc direction just past the valve, and then shut off the valve carefully, and then install a new shut off valve near it and then just open the bronze valve with rusted handle for last time and never deal with it again. (Until the well fails and they re-cap anyways).

 

[RS]

If it's such a corrosive environment maybe a plastic ball valve would be a better option. How much pressure are you dealing with?

 

[RickFlorida]

If it's such a corrosive environment maybe a plastic ball valve would be a better option. How much pressure are you dealing with?

Thanks, yeah I'm going to have to use one of those big plastic ball valves since those are more easily glued onto the new pvc I'll be running to the new pump location. thanks. Yeah I'm by the ocean and it's humid here. The 175 dollar Milwaukee valve is doing it's job. The only failure is the ridiculous cheap carbon steel they use for handles on 175 dollar bronze valves. This is the dumbest design I've ever seen.

 

[GReynolds929]

Most handles on gate valves and hose bibs are pot metal, most ball valve handles are steel.

 

[RickFlorida]

Most handles on gate valves and hose bibs are pot metal, most ball valve handles are steel.

You are talking about typical gate valves I assume. I've seen the pot metal handles you mean on small normal hose bibs and yes I've seen carbon steel ones on the ball valves. The pot metal handles become brittle and break in less than 3 years outside of my house. So I get that the easy to change and very cheap valves come with crappy handles. But for me to learn that solid bronze gate valves come with carbon steel handles is just a shock to me.

But this is a solid bronze Milwaukee gate valve that is the master valve for a deep artesian well. And it's a shared well meaning it's probably double the flow/pressure. Why on God's green earth does a solid bronze valve that costs between 175 to 350 dollars come with a cheap carbon steel handle? This is the dumbest thing I've ever encountered in life. Here's an example of my valve. Looks identical to me.