Lukewarm water in shower/tub.

[Puller]

Here is what I have. Well water. Symmons valve that's original in a 44 year old house. No service stops. Diverter has two screws holding back so it's old. Hot water line leaves tank. Goes to tee. One line goes up to the washer 1st floor then up to 2nd to valve. No other fixtures. Other line from tee goes to 3 sink fixtures that are two handle and dish washer. No cross connection, I checked even I believe it happens on single. All fixtures work fine. Hot.Tank is new and problem was evident on old tank toward the last year although not as bad. All pex lines with no changes from original way.

Things I've done so far. As mentioned checked for cross connection including washer. Rebuilt valve. Tried 3 different spindles. All new. Front flushed. Backflushed. Removed valve guts and put airline into hot line, blew 90 lbs of air into it. Rubber tip gun right against hot seat. Before this I took off hot corrugated line of tank and into pail. Wanted to see what came out. Nothing. Shut cold water off and ran hot into emptied valve and got hot water with flow. Tank is set to 140. Said WTF several times. Adjust screw in cap all the out. While tub is running ran cold water in sink to take some of the cold water. No change. Flushed down stairs toilet. Water did get warmer. But after awhile went back. The one thing I didn't try and just thought of while writing this novel is blowing air from hot line from and up to shower valve. Read before it helped somebody.
Things I wonder. Could the valve body especially the cold outlet be worn out. I do get more then Symmons says (I also talked to them) which is a pencil size flow on the diverter.
Thanks in advance for any help or even taking the time to read this

 

[Twowaxhack]

is there a lavatory faucet in the room with the shower or close by ? If so, take the temperature of the hot water there

 

[MrInfoPhilly]

Here is what I have. Well water. Symmons valve that's original in a 44 year old house. No service stops. Diverter has two screws holding back so it's old. Hot water line leaves tank. Goes to tee. One line goes up to the washer 1st floor then up to 2nd to valve. No other fixtures. Other line from tee goes to 3 sink fixtures that are two handle and dish washer. No cross connection, I checked even I believe it happens on single. All fixtures work fine. Hot.Tank is new and problem was evident on old tank toward the last year although not as bad. All pex lines with no changes from original way.

Things I've done so far. As mentioned checked for cross connection including washer. Rebuilt valve. Tried 3 different spindles. All new. Front flushed. Backflushed. Removed valve guts and put airline into hot line, blew 90 lbs of air into it. Rubber tip gun right against hot seat. Before this I took off hot corrugated line of tank and into pail. Wanted to see what came out. Nothing. Shut cold water off and ran hot into emptied valve and got hot water with flow. Tank is set to 140. Said WTF several times. Adjust screw in cap all the out. While tub is running ran cold water in sink to take some of the cold water. No change. Flushed down stairs toilet. Water did get warmer. But after awhile went back. The one thing I didn't try and just thought of while writing this novel is blowing air from hot line from and up to shower valve. Read before it helped somebody.
Things I wonder. Could the valve body especially the cold outlet be worn out. I do get more then Symmons says (I also talked to them) which is a pencil size flow on the diverter.
Thanks in advance for any help or even taking the time to read this

The Hot line leading to the Diverter., does the line feel hot to the touch? If so., the diverter is bad.,
Take a picture of diverter., with the trim off., is their a stop screw?., And is there a shutoff valve before the diverter? Pictures are very helpful!

 

[Puller]

is there a lavatory faucet in the room with the shower or close by ? If so, take the temperature of the hot water there

Yes. It's the vanity sink in the same room. Two handle faucet. Temp is about 140. Same as kitchen sink and downstairs bathroom. I know 120 is wanted but got the tank turned up. Also too with the hot water hose off and running in a bucket about 140. That line continues on up to feed just the shower valve as noted before.

 

[Puller]

The Hot line leading to the Diverter., does the line feel hot to the touch? If so., the diverter is bad.,
Take a picture of diverter., with the trim off., is their a stop screw?., And is there a shutoff valve before the diverter? Pictures are very helpful!

Same valve with the exception the part that holds the diverter in is a small plate retained by two screws. Older valve. No separate line for diverter or stop screw. No valve other then what's on tank for whole system. By saying diverter do you mean tub/shower diverter operated by lever? Left is tub and right is shower?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Replace the faucet.

 

[1800r]

Replace the faucet.

It's looking like that. I would love to see a Symmons valve at this age and see how big the cold water inlet looks like inside. Compare the two. The hot is more restricted. As said I have well water and wonder how or if it eroded the brass housing allowing too much cold water in. As I mentioned the shower/tub diverter cartridge seems to allow more water to tub while shower is on. That would be caused i guess by eroded brass. Fortunately I have an access panel to the valve. I'm going to give the backflushing one more shot but this time tap on the valve and pipe from the access. There is only one elbow, original piping from valve before it goes to cellar to where its pex. Perhaps might be something to show a hot flow but not enough to be effective.

 

[MrInfoPhilly]

Same valve with the exception the part that holds the diverter in is a small plate retained by two screws. Older valve. No separate line for diverter or stop screw. No valve other then what's on tank for whole system. By saying diverter do you mean tub/shower diverter operated by lever? Left is tub and right is shower?

Hot water everywhere., except the outlet of the shower., Then its the shower diverter... replace it with a Moen and be done with it.

 

[Geofd]

How do you heat your hot water, if it's a tankless from your boiler you need a different stem it's called a ta-10 3hole stem,there is also a brass flat head screw on the body open the valve 1/2 way and back out the screw so it's flush with the body symmons also has a great tech team ,they will also help you

 

[Puller]

How do you heat your hot water, if it's a tankless from your boiler you need a different stem it's called a ta-10 3hole stem,there is also a brass flat head screw on the body open the valve 1/2 way and back out the screw so it's flush with the body symmons also has a great tech team ,they will also help you

I have a gas 40 gal. tank. That screw you are referring to, is that the anti scald screw? I did replace the cap but the way the screw is set, I can turn the handle past the 360 degree mark.
I already talked to Symmons. I asked if the valve body wears out and he said no. So if the valve doesn't wear out and is rebuilt according to symmons changing the valve wont solve the problem.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Tech support can’t tell you if the hot side inlet of the valve is restricted or not.

If you’re sure there’s no cross connection and hot water is available, I’d replace the faucet.

If you’re not sure, cut the hot pipe in the wall and check.

 

[Geofd]

I have a gas 40 gal. tank. That screw you are referring to, is that the anti scald screw? I did replace the cap but the way the screw is set, I can turn the handle past the 360 degree mark.
I already talked to Symmons. I asked if the valve body wears out and he said no. So if the valve doesn't wear out and is rebuilt according to symmons changing the valve wont solve the problem.

When you pull the stem if you shake it back and forth you should hear the (barrel) clicking,that means the valve is free of debris,call symmons and ask if the stem used for tankless applications would change anything if you compare the stems
The one for a tankless has alot fewer holes

 

[Twowaxhack]

The tankless stem only restricts water flow. That’s all it does different, it’s a flow restrictor.

 

[Puller]

Tech support can’t tell you if the hot side inlet of the valve is restricted or not.

If you’re sure there’s no cross connection and hot water is available, I’d replace the faucet.

If you’re not sure, cut the hot pipe in the wall and check.

Tech support really didn't offer much but was willing to discuss the problem. but that's fine. They only know their product. Least I was talking to someone here in the states not over seas for once. If I put diverter to 3/4 the way over to shower it's hot enough to get steamy hot or hot enough. The plan is to just change it. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Twowaxhack]

So this is a tub snd shower. You should be using the white diverter, not the black one.

 

[1800r]

So this is a tub snd shower. You should be using the white diverter, not the black one.

I only used the white ones. As far as moving the lever trick mentioned, that didn't last. Its the random temperature changes that I don't get. So I'll back flush one more time just for the hell of it. I don't have a floor drain or sink by heater. I run a hose off the disconnected hot line on tank and up and out the cellar window. No luck there I'll change the valve when it comes in. I checked the water temp through out the house, 130.

 

[Geofd]

Just for the heck of it,shut off the hot and cold valves to eliminate faulty solenoid valves in the washer