Galvanized versus black pipe concerns...

[journeyman]

the use of black iron pipe is not right for natural gas. it can be used but the deodorant in natural gas that makes it easy to smell eats away at black iron just as propane eats galvanized. there is no rule saying you cant use it just trying to educate most people do not know this.

 

[frodo]

the use of black iron pipe is not right for natural gas. it can be used but the deodorant in natural gas that makes it easy to smell eats away at black iron just as propane eats galvanized. there is no rule saying you cant use it just trying to educate most people do not know this.

View attachment 8124

Ok,,,you got my attention...I have been using blk pipe on natural gas for over 30 years. please show me documentation to back up your claim.

i am not disputing you,,please enlighten me

NFPA 54 and ANSI Z223.1 provide the minimum safety requirements for the design and installation of fuel gas piping systems in homes and other buildings. These standards include specifying the approved materials for gas pipes. The approved materials for gas pipes include:
• steel pipe
• wrought iron
• copper pipe
• brass pipe
• ductile iron
• aluminum pipe
• PVC pipe
• Polyethylene pipe

Let's take a look at the NFPA 54 requirements for each of these. Please note that this is an overview of gas pipe requirements. You should be familiar with the details of both the NFPA 54 requirements and your location building code requirements.

There are some requirements that apply for all gas piping:
• It must be suitable for the temperature and pressure at which it will be used.
• It must be suitable for the environment in which it will be used. For example, if the pipe comes into contact with materials that may cause corrosion (such as when passing through a wall), then a material that will not corrode must be used. This also applies to outdoor and underground use.
• Pipe, tubing, and fittings must be free from cutting burrs and defects in structure or threading. Repaired defective pipe may not be used.
• When in contact with a corrosive atmosphere, a corrosion-resistant coating must be used to protect the pipe, tubing, and fittings.
• Seamless copper, aluminum alloy, or steel tubing may not be used with gas that is corrosive to such material.

Note: Cast iron may never be used for gas piping.


Gas Pipe Approved Materials - Steel and Wrought Iron Pipes Approved Materials

Steel and wrought iron pipes have the same requirements. They must be at least schedule 40, and they must comply with one of the following:
• ANSI/ASME B36.10
• ASTM A 53
• ASTM A 106

Steel tubing must comply with ASTM 254.

Corrugated stainless steel tubing must be listed in accordance with ANSI LC 1 / CSA 6.26.


Gas Pipe Approved Materials - Copper and Brass Pipes

Copper and brass may not be used, if the gas contains more than an average of 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 scf of gas. Copper tubing must also comply with ASTM B 88 standard type K or Type L, or with ASTM B 280.

Threaded copper or brass may not be used with gas that is corrosive to copper or brass.


Gas Pipe Approved Material - Aluminum Alloy Pipes

Aluminum alloy piping may not be used underground or in exterior locations, and it must comply with ASTM B 241. The use of alloy 5456 is prohibited.

Aluminum tubing must comply with ASTM B 210 or B 241, and be coated to protect against exterior corrosion.


Free Pipe Marking Wall Chart

DuraLabel has a wide variety of printers that are ideal for creating custom pipe markers.


Gas Pipe Approved Material - Plastic Pipes

Polyethylene gas piping must conform to ASTM D 2513. All other plastic pipe, tubing, and fittings used for gas must conform with ASTM D 2513-2008.

Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and polyethylene pipes may both be used for pipes buried outside a building.

Regulator vent piping must be PVC.


Gas Pipe Approved Material - Flexible Connectors

Flexible connectors are used to connect equipment to gas piping. Check with local building codes for requirements. A typical requirement is that flexible connectors be AGA approved.


Gas Pipe Approved Material - Local Codes, Standards, and Regulations

Always check with the local governing authority before installing gas pipes. While the materials listed here meet the national standards, the approved materials for gas pipes will vary locally.


Read more at: http://www.pipemarkers.com/approved-materials-gas-pipes.php#ixzz3X9I7PKLv

 

[havasu]

In my area, not using black pipe will get you red flagged by the inspector.

 

[CT18]

We are also black pipe. Michigan

 

[Mr_David]

Black is okay but has to galvanized in exterior location.

Epoxy coated ( like the green pipe above ) or wrapped pipe for underground.

 

[journeyman]

methyl mercaptan is the additive in natural gas, ethyl mercaptan is the additive in propane which has a sulfur base and can react with certain metals. it speeds up if exposed to moisture or air. I saw an add from Canada where the were removing mercaptan due to the corrosive properties. there are a lot of different mercaptans. most of the major gas explosion were due to mercaptan

 

[journeyman]

There is nothing to say you cant use certain pipes. I use galvanized pipe a lot. just put it out there for teach people a little something. just like when you glue pvc pipe together you are suppose to chamfer the outside edge or you let a soldered copper joint cool naturally and not put a wet rag on it cause it causes fractures the solder joint or how you don't let primer dry all the way before you use the glue you let it get tacky then add glue because you are creating a chemical weld or how your not suppose to use sand paper to rough up pvc fittings because it causes air pockets I can go on all day because everyone in this room does things properly right just trying to educate.

 

[havasu]

I appreciate Journeyman's input in here. I also believe this information is important for all to read, so it was separated from the leading thread and provided a space all its own.

 

[frodo]

isn't there different mercaptan additives? and the one that is corrosive if used in a wet environment is the Ethyl?

or are all corrosive, i think,,,,some is made from onions and garlic...


isnt the mercapton only corrosive if used over 100ppm and additives in gas line is only 20ppm?

i read that on the net...have no idea if true or false

 

[Twowaxhack]

I installed a pvc gas line to a greenhouse 30 yrs ago and it’s still working. I just walked past it a few minutes ago.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Here in NC, it’s black pipe for NG for old-school and for all rework and retrofit. For new construction, it’s soft copper with continuous runs, no fittings. CSST is too expensive for a builder to use.

I prefer black pipe myself.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I use copper most of the time. Flared or brazed.

 

[PerplexedPlumber]

Lines are now a special type of PEX (yellow), but inside the house black pipe is required.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Call it a pet peeve; but the thing I don't like about this soft copper is they run it willy-nilly all over the place at bizarre angles, through studs, etc. Though I have not heard of any issues anywhere I'm not in a position to. It's way too easy for someone, sometime, to accidentally puncture a soft copper line buried in a wall. One will never accidentally puncture black iron. I don't know which walls in my home have gas lines in them but I know some do...I can only guess.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Call it a pet peeve; but the thing I don't like about this soft copper is they run it willy-nilly all over the place at bizarre angles, through studs, etc. Though I have not heard of any issues anywhere I'm not in a position to. It's way too easy for someone, sometime, to accidentally puncture a soft copper line buried in a wall. One will never accidentally puncture black iron. I don't know which walls in my home have gas lines in them but I know some do...I can only guess.

If it’s installed properly it’s not really an issue. Your statement is true that black iron would not be punctured by a nail.

Black iron is more susceptible to damage in earthquakes and structural settling than copper..

Copper is more susceptible to lightning.

Copper doesn’t rust......

Copper is attacked by mercaptan to one degree or another.

Many factors in what’s best in various installation situations.

I’m for having choices.

 

[breplum]

OP, journeyman, what sources are you basing your orig. post upon.
In most of California, we use the CA version of UPC. There has never been an issue with black or galv. pipe (indoors), nor with galv. pipe outdoors as long as 6" above grade, in my 46 years in the trade.
Nor have I ever read of an issue. Please site your source for claims in the o.p.
I am always happy to learn, but your opening statement is nonsense for gas provided by major utility companies.

 

[havasu]

I've been in California for 65 years, and have only seen black pipe used for natural gas. I've also only seen soft copper and PVC used for below grade water service main lines.

 

[Twowaxhack]

OP, journeyman, what sources are you basing your orig. post upon.
In most of California, we use the CA version of UPC. There has never been an issue with black or galv. pipe (indoors), nor with galv. pipe outdoors as long as 6" above grade, in my 46 years in the trade.
Nor have I ever read of an issue. Please site your source for claims in the o.p.
I am always happy to learn, but your opening statement is nonsense for gas provided by major utility companies.

I agree, it’s nonsense.

 

[FishScreener]

Black Iron is used as opposed to galvanized, becasue if you knick or scratch the galvanizing, all of the corrosion occurs at that location. So many pounds of steel in a certain environment has certain amount of electric potential, the rate of corroding is determined by the potential, and the surface area available to corrode. The galvanizing means that the surface has a harder time corroding. But, if you nick the coating all of the corrosion occurs at the nick and it rusts through very quickly.

When they install the large high pressure transmission lines, They use a PVC coated pipe, (Used to use Coal Tar Epoxy, but PVC is now less expensive), then wrap all the welded joints with a PVC tape, and check for holidays/pinholes.

The selection of pipe material is based on pressure, and environment just like any other decision. The pressure before the meter and regulator is considerably higher than the service pressure after the meter and regulator. And the corrosion potential, is also different.

The Gas company owns and is responsible for the line to the meter and regulator. They used to run black steel with only the fittings wrapped, then they went to a PVC coated steel pipe, and the last I looked at any, it was a yellow surfaced poly pipe with welded joints.

Interior you have a bunch of choices but need to learn the pluses and minuses of the different pipes, and choose what makes sense. Personally I like plain steel piping for most locations.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I use the yellow HDPE with compression fittings for generators and pool heaters when I have a long underground run.

2psi then a regulator dropping to whatever the input of the appliance calls for.