Kohler Niedecken problems

Superjfly · Jan 29, 2015

Hi everyone. First post here so be gentle.

I tried searching Niedecken and came back empty.

Here we go...

I have a Kohler Niedecken Tub/Shower valve. The threads on the spindle to yoke stripped so I had to replace the parts. I brought it to a local hardware store and they actually rebuilt the unit for $10, plus the expensive replacement parts.

I brought it home and everything went in correctly, but now I can't get anything above warm water to come out. I have taken it apart several times, trying different positions on where to start the yoke. Swapped the left and right plungers. Taken everything out and turned the hot water on only, to flush it and it was shooting out of the wall very hot. I have also backed that adjustment screw out as far as I could without it leaking, with no change.

I have replaced the seats about 3 years ago when one was leaking.

There were no shut-offs on the lines, so I installed those (Sharkbite).

The showers are tolerable, but the baths for the kids are a no-go. It is not even close to warm.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Neil

frodo · Jan 29, 2015

your valve has a set screw that will alow more or less hot water it is a balancing valve

not positive, so dont yell at me if it aint

Mr_David · Jan 29, 2015

That is and OLD mixing valve. been awhile since I have worked on or repaired on of those. I don't think there is anything balanced about those valves. Just an old school mixer. The ones I recall maybe a little different.

Mr_David · Jan 29, 2015

quick search got this . Was a little different from the ones I repaired

rebuild a Kohler Niedecken video

Superjfly · Feb 3, 2015

Thanks for the video. I actually used that video when I was re-installing the first time. The only thing I can think of is around the 4:30 mark, he shows how the seats and plungers work. Maybe I should replace the seats just to make sure it isn't that. Then maybe the plungers.

I already have the adjustment screw all the way back, it helped slightly.

Right now the tub temp is about 90 degrees and the shower is 100 degrees. The shower is tolerable but the kids can't take a bath without me adding hot water from the sink. Not fun.

The thing I don't understand is how the temps were fine before I took the thing out to get repaired.

Mr_David · Feb 5, 2015

I watched the video at 4:30. Make sure you have the cold plunger on the cold side and hot on hot. Not sure if they are interchangeable. If you start to open the valve you should just get cold.

Superjfly · Feb 6, 2015

Yes I tried that already. Switched them for the heck of it, and it was cold the whole time.

I called Kohler Customer Service and they said the plungers should really be replaced when replacing the yoke. I ordered new plungers and seats to try.

I wonder if something (plungers/seats/other part of the valve) was permanently damaged from my kid over torquing the handle to shut the water off, which caused the spindle and yoke to strip.

Mr_David · Feb 6, 2015

let us know how it turns out.

There is a another but different type of valve I used to work on a lot.
It had a cam type stem. When you turned it to hot it tilted a pin that opened the valve. Lots of small parts.

Superjfly · Feb 11, 2015

It is working! A miracle really.

I replaced both plungers first. That did nothing.

When the new seats came within a repair kit, it also came with procedures. Although I did replace the seats (they didn't look damaged at all), I think the devil was in the details of the procedures. Particularly how to re-install the valve cover on the body.

I couldn't find these directions anywhere on the internet so I am going to post them here and hope someone else finds a use for them someday.

I believe Step 16 is key. I was starting the yoke in all different positions to try and make it work correctly. I bet I had that thing apart a dozen times before this.

It is either that or the new seats really made a difference, I am thinking not.

Thank you all for your suggestions and taking the time to listen to me complain. Off to a very HOT shower.

Niedecken Diagram - Exploded view

Niedecken Repair Kit Replacement Procedures

Mr_David · Feb 14, 2015

Thanks for the update. Always glad to hear from those who got it resolved.

bcoole · Jul 10, 2018

THANK YOU for posting this information! I had the same problem. Printed the page of instructions, followed carefully (esp. Step 16), and got both cold and hot water! I was being told by the folks who rebuilt the valve for me that the problem had to be debris clogging my hot water line and I would have to have the plumbing replaced. Nope!
____________________

Superjfly said:
It is working! A miracle really.

I replaced both plungers first. That did nothing.

When the new seats came within a repair kit, it also came with procedures. Although I did replace the seats (they didn't look damaged at all), I think the devil was in the details of the procedures. Particularly how to re-install the valve cover on the body.

I couldn't find these directions anywhere on the internet so I am going to post them here and hope someone else finds a use for them someday.

I believe Step 16 is key. I was starting the yoke in all different positions to try and make it work correctly. I bet I had that thing apart a dozen times before this.

It is either that or the new seats really made a difference, I am thinking not.

Thank you all for your suggestions and taking the time to listen to me complain. Off to a very HOT shower.

Niedecken Diagram - Exploded view

Niedecken Repair Kit Replacement Procedures

indio · Nov 30, 2021

Superjfly said:
It is working! A miracle really.

I replaced both plungers first. That did nothing.

When the new seats came within a repair kit, it also came with procedures. Although I did replace the seats (they didn't look damaged at all), I think the devil was in the details of the procedures. Particularly how to re-install the valve cover on the body.

I couldn't find these directions anywhere on the internet so I am going to post them here and hope someone else finds a use for them someday.

I believe Step 16 is key. I was starting the yoke in all different positions to try and make it work correctly. I bet I had that thing apart a dozen times before this.

It is either that or the new seats really made a difference, I am thinking not.

Thank you all for your suggestions and taking the time to listen to me complain. Off to a very HOT shower.

Niedecken Diagram - Exploded view

Niedecken Repair Kit Replacement Procedures

I'm joined the forum and am raising this thread from the dead - to hopefully learn what is the mysterious STEP 16?

I have same problem with not enough hot water. The links to the diagram and procedures are not accessable. Can someone provide me the procedure or inform what is Step 16? Thanks.

havasu · Dec 1, 2021

Welcome indio!

I'm guessing the key to solving this puzzle about the infamous "step # 16", is unavailable anymore. Maybe due to the thread being about 7 years old, or some other factor, I am not permitted to access the link myself. The YouTube video is still available, so maybe watching the video may help you out?

indio · Dec 1, 2021

havasu said:
Welcome indio!

I'm guessing the key to solving this puzzle about the infamous "step # 16", is unavailable anymore. Maybe due to the thread being about 7 years old, or some other factor, I am not permitted to access the link myself. The YouTube video is still available, so maybe watching the video may help you out?

Thanks, I requested access to the google drive procedure document and the owner gave me the access. Looks like the Step 16 is basically the process of re-installing the assembly to the wall housing. I also ordered the kit from Kohler with the new seals and such. I'll report back here next week, just to indicate if I have a success with the seals and procedure steps, getting more hot water.

havasu · Dec 1, 2021

We like final reports and pictures too!

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